Viking women burials....

[Imperial Dave]

https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/vikings/if-it-was-a-man-we-would-say-thats-a-warriors-grave-weapon-filled-burials-are-shaking-up-what-we-know-about-womens-role-in-viking-society

Of interest...?

[Keraunos]

I am having a Viking trip at the moment, not through indulging in shamanistic rituals but through spending long flights reading books about the Vikings - Thomas Williams' "Viking Britain", Neil Gaiman's "Norse Mythology", sections of Nicholas Jubber's "Epic Continent" and, best of all, Neil Price's "Children of Ash and Elm".  The latter puts the often over focus on the Vikings in Britain, Normandy and Sicily into the context of their eastern forays - my main interest.  It is also very good on examining the scale of the Vikings role as slave traders and the scale of the domestic production of cloth (for sails and clothing) and timber products (from ships to toys) that grew in symbiotic relationship with the slaving and trading.  He also brings out the scale of the archaeological record of Viking burials that we now have - pointing to the urgent need for data analysis to make better sense of the volume of material.  What he does say is that the excitement and scholarly arguments about oddities like the Birka burial (or others that suggest men being buried in women's clothing) are out of all proportion.  They represent a tiny fraction of well over a million recorded burials.  What is interesting is that almost every burial is different, even within regional groupings, and the DNA material now being collected gives a much more complex picture about who these peoples were and how different parts of society were treated than the traditional picture of the vikings.  Well worth a read though not much of a source for wargame related information.  For that, I hope that chapter 5 of Franklin and Shepard's "The Emergence of Rus, 750 - 1200" will deliver the goods.  I have it on my iPad but find reading electronically much less engaging than when holding a book, so progress has been very slow.

[stevenneate]

And I thought they all just flew off with the Valkyries?!

[Nick Harbud]

...not much of a source for wargame related information.  For that, I hope that chapter 5 of Franklin and Shepard's "The Emergence of Rus, 750 - 1200" will deliver the goods. 

Presumably you have already read Paddy Griffith "Viking Art of War"?

[Imperial Dave]

And I thought they all just flew off with the Valkyries?!

I have a sudden urge to paint up a bifrost

[Keraunos]

...not much of a source for wargame related information.  For that, I hope that chapter 5 of Franklin and Shepard's "The Emergence of Rus, 750 - 1200" will deliver the goods. 

Presumably you have already read Paddy Griffith "Viking Art of War"?

No, I have not 
Thanks for flagging it up 

[Imperial Dave]

Always a bonus...

[Keraunos]

And I thought they all just flew off with the Valkyries?!

Only heroic warriors were carried off by the Valkyries, the rest going to Hel!  What I had not known before was that only half the heroic warriors ended up in Valhalla.  The other half were assigned to Sessrúmnir, the hall of Odin's wife Freya who, according to Grímnir's Sayings in the Edda, got first pick.

[Nick Harbud]

   

[Erpingham]

...not much of a source for wargame related information.  For that, I hope that chapter 5 of Franklin and Shepard's "The Emergence of Rus, 750 - 1200" will deliver the goods. 

Presumably you have already read Paddy Griffith "Viking Art of War"?

No, I have not 
Thanks for flagging it up 

Though remember Paddy Griffith was by no means an expert on Viking warfare. He was much better on more recent periods in 19th and 20th centuries.

As to women as warriors in the Viking Age, I'd certainly place myself in that middle category of saying we need to know more. Jumping to rapid conclusions about hordes of shield maidens or saying they're all a mistake because it threatens manly stereotypes is going to get us nowhere. These burials are quite rare and our admittedly partial records don't suggest women warriors were commonplace. This suggests they represent special circumstances - a social or religious role, perhaps, or simply individualism, all of wwhich have implications about the nature of Viking society.

[Nick Harbud]

Well yes, Paddy's views often went against those of whatever is thought of as the establishment.  I mean, his books on the American Civil War were known for driving several US wargamers into a state of apoplexia.  (How dare this goddamn limey tell us that this was the last Napoleonic conflict rather than the first modern one!)  Nevertheless, whenever I ask experienced wargamers of this period whether they think Paddy or the rest of the hobby has a better grip on the key issues, they always side with the former.

Having chatted with Kim at the last Convention, I am sure that he is quite capable of sifting the sensible from the wild and woolly in Paddy's writings.