Arthur's dykes

[Imperial Dave]

thanks both. Interestingly many highland areas were forested and arable and its only relatively recently (ie the last 1-2000 years) that many upland areas have become barren

[Jim Webster]

thanks both. Interestingly many highland areas were forested and arable and its only relatively recently (ie the last 1-2000 years) that many upland areas have become barren

It's not they've become barren, more farmed differently. So Dartmoor is barren because of geology, but frankly last time I walked across Exmoor I was struck by the fact that large amounts of it are unploughed because of policy. (I think it was in the 1980s or 90s there was a 'scandal' about a farmer intending to plough some of his land up there.)
Similarly on the hill, Lacra that overlooks the back of Millom, you might assume timeless moor but actually there are parts where you find traces of rig and furrow and long abandoned farm buildings. It might have been farmed during the First World War, or perhaps the Napoleonic Wars.

For a lot of land, Barren often depends as much on the price of grain as on anything else :-)

Jim

[Anton]

Interesting observation as ever Jim.

I am much taken by Nerys Patterson's view that sub polities were always viable geographic "eco units" of arable and pastoral lands surrounded by waste to enable expansion and offer some military/political insulation.  She expressed it more elegantly.

It seems obvious that even a small loss of territory could seriously unbalance and threaten the whole affair.  That in turn explains the need for affiliation to a higher level of authority that could mediate internally or defend against external aggression.

[Imperial Dave]

and the more upland you go the more 'tribal' the polity and cattle and other movable herds are the real wealth

[Anton]

No doubt about wealth on the hoof.  I'm now clear that it was also the norm to intensively cultivate the available good arable land too.

It would be an interesting exercise to look at individual parish's in upland Britannia and see the ratio of arable to pasture.  A case has been made that parish boundaries preserve the original territory of ancient political sub units.

[Erpingham]

It would be an interesting exercise to look at individual parish's in upland Britannia and see the ratio of arable to pasture. 

Though, as Jim has pointed out, modern percentages may be misleading.  Land may have supported arable in different climate conditions or, as Jim said, in different economic ones.  A move from a local subsistence set up where you grew stuff even with marginal yields to one in which produce could be easily imported could change land use.

[Anton]

Certainly, although the potential should still be discernible. 

[Imperial Dave]

I wonder how much of the cattle as movable wealth approach to status was copied in the lowland areas

[Anton]

The prestige hierarchy of livestock was horses, cattle, sheep, goats.  I'd say that prevailed in the lowlands too.

Good pasturage for horses and cattle, less good for sheep, rough for goats. Swine are somewhat otherworldly, important but different.

[Jim Webster]

I wonder how much of the cattle as movable wealth approach to status was copied in the lowland areas

Portable wealth and portable tax avoidance. It was difficult to hide the land from the tax authorities, but provided you had some livestock when the accessor arrived, the rest could take a short holiday in a clearing in the woods whilst authority was present 

[Imperial Dave]

you've done this before havent you Jim.... 

[Jim Webster]

you've done this before havent you Jim.... 

An easy way to transfer cash from one jurisdiction to another 

[Anton]

And none of them will talk.

[Imperial Dave]

a bit of mooing from the cows but hope the pigs dont squeal on you

[Jim Webster]

a bit of mooing from the cows but hope the pigs dont squeal on you

we have ways of not making you talk