SoA Forums

Quote from: Erpingham on June 28, 2023, 02:23:01 PMHandgunners were equipped for melee with spear and shield, with a slave to carry the weapons they weren't using.  Apparently they favoured massed volleys, followed by a charge. Representing this troop type under the rules may be interesting.

From memory, I think it was Phil Barker who commented on the slighter later Arquebusiers fighting in the 'colonies' in the late 15th and 16th centuries who had a similar technique are 'were saved from being categorised as warband by the presence of the arquebus'

Quote from: Jim Webster on June 29, 2023, 12:29:04 PMFrom memory, I think it was Phil Barker who commented on the slighter later Arquebusiers fighting in the 'colonies' in the late 15th and 16th centuries who had a similar technique are 'were saved from being categorised as warband by the presence of the arquebus'

The DBR Ming list says "Portuguese shot are saved from being classed as warband only by the fact that they all had firearms."

They're actually classed as Shot (Fast), which doesn't have an obvious DBA analogue. Fast Warband that can shoot, perhaps?

Thanks Andreas and Jim and Anthony, and Anthony's notes of caution taken board. (I may yet impress my early West Sudanese infantry into other West African kingdoms to try out a DBA bash with a Portuguese landing party. I may have to rebase my 25mm Renaissance first, although I could try out a grid variation of DBA I have played with so that rebasing isnt needed!!

Its that crossover aspect of our 'historical periods'. I thought of DBA as a way of capturing the style of warfare in that there didn't seem to be many military changes beyond the handgunner / arquebusier and ships cannon by end of our 'ancients' period and the early period of Portuguese and Spanish activity in either Portuguese 'rounding' Africa or assaulting Moroccan / Berber cities on north and northwestern coast of Africa by Spanish.

The fun of gaming.
CarlL

In case it is any help, I have just dug out Guilmartin's superlative Gunpowder & Galleys on renaissance maritime conflict in the Med to see what he has to offer on the crossbow to arquebus transition.  Now of course, he is talking about galley crews, but as he is at such pains to point out, that is indivisible from siege warfare given the purpose of the galley campaigns.

Anyway, he observes that Spanish expeditions (even small ones like Colombus) seem to have reached parity in crossbow and matchlock by the 1490s to 1500, judging by equipment requisitions.  The Venetian Council of Ten ordered the complete replacement of crossbows by the arquebus on war galleys in 1518.  Spanish naval inventories have few crossbows by 1530, and almost none by 1540.  Only the French (as in some other matters) still had crossbows in a ratio of 40 vs 60 arquebuses in 1552.

A Spaniard who escaped captivity in 1561 reported that the North African corsairs of the Pasha of Velez had sharpshooters who were double-armed with an arquebus and a composite bow.  Guilmartin speculates that the arquebus may have been retained for boarding actions (where the ball had good penetration at short range vs bulwarks), whilst the bow may have been used for longer range action at sea, and forays ashore.

Cheers David, very helpful.
CarlL

Well, I have taken plunge and bought a copy of DBR version 2 with its included three army list books, in order to pursue my DBA - ish plans for the Portuguese plundering (Viking style) around Africa in late 15th early 16th centuries. (I may include Spanish expeditions to Morocco too.)

Quite by accident I also stumbled into the very interesting rules work of Tony Aguilar (work he had done in 2009 which I missed then, probably because I moved job, crossed country and moved house twice too that year).

He had authored his extension of DBA to cover later periods which he called DBA-RRR (Renaissance, Reformation, Restoration). I found this accidentally, and it led me to DBA Fanaticus [on tab] DB - Pike and Shot, [under subtab] newest versions of DBA-RRR; where Tony noted he had posted his work on Facebook; but as I don't use Facebook this was a blind alley till I found his work on army lists at
gamingenglishcivilwar.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/dba-rrr-army-lists-v-1-21.pdf

There I found his DBA style army lists for Spanish Colonial 1524-1534 and Portuguese Colonial (j) others, 1521-1550. However I have yet to find his full rules or QRS so if you know of a source (other than the Facebook page Tony Aguilar listed on Fanaticus DBA, in Dec 2018), then I would be grateful to hear about it.

Meanwhile I await two books in the post which Duncan Head and others have kindly identified for me. I may yet have a mini campaign for Portuguese plundering in Africa up and running before the summer is out. (I may have some unused toy ships from another project to make a galleon or two for their travels.)
CarlL

There are links to Tony Aguilar's work here
https://gamingenglishcivilwar.wordpress.com/thirty-years-war-30yw-project/dba-rrr-rules-and-army-lists/
Where the ECW gaming group in Texas (USA) has links to Tony's army lists, rules and QRS and possibly their own QRS (mixing Tony's work with a later version of DBA it appears, remembering that Tony did his extension in 2009).
CarlL

Well it looks like I have been following a mistaken line of thinking...
Borrowing my wife's copy of Penrose's 'Travel and Discovery in the Renaissance' (from 1967 so old), I keenly read through the chapters on 'Henry the Navigator and the African Voyages' and 'The Portuguese in the Orient'. Taking some notes as I went along starting in 1415 with Portuguese taking Cueta, in Morocco, then ending my notes with exploits of Francisco de Almeida  and Alfonso de Albuquerque in 1503 / 1510 period. Then I went to George Gush's 'Renaissance Armies'(second edition, from 1982) to look at 'uniform' (clothing) styles. Of course Gush covered period 1480 to 1650 so misses most of my 15th century interest. And of course the Portuguese are not covered!! So I looked at Spanish but thought they are probably 'too late' in some / many aspects of their appearance.
So I went to Ian Heath's 'Armies of the Middle Ages [AME], volume 1' (covering the period 1300 to 1487) so more in keeping with the period I am researching. Again Heath didn't cover the Portuguese, but does cover near neighbours the Spanish.
Looks like I should be thinking late medieval Portuguese sailors / soldiers for their appearance in their exploits mapping the coastline of Africa in their search for an 'eastern' sea passage to Asia and access to the spice trade, on the way becoming involved in other trading in ivory, gold, pepper and slaves (taken back to Portugal before the days of the Atlantic trade in people that led to Portuguese taking people as slave labour to plantations in Brazil, which the Portuguese didn't occupy till after 1500).
Previously it appeared that the Portuguese had begun taking slaves as soldiers in Africa in early voyages, but my preliminary reading about 1400s didn't cite any examples, although Penrose noted the Portuguese use of 'sepoy' soldiers in India in battles fought to defend their ally the (Hindu) Rajah of Cochin. (Ian Heath's volume 2, of AME, does cover the Hindu soldiers of this period!! See illustrations 34, 35, 38.)

So it looks like my interest in the Portuguese adventurers of the 1400s fits within our SoA time span of 3000BC to 1500AD. So its time for me to think late medieval rather than early renaissance?!?!
CarlL

Don't forget the Arabian adventures - the Portuguese capture of Ormuz in 1507, and the failure at Jiddah in 1517.  Granted the latter ended up as just a naval fight, but it was intended to be an amphibious landing if the Portuguese could work out how to overcome the Ottoman batteries and galley squadron.

Cheers David.
The Portuguese are very 'Viking' like in their behaviour, which seems to get more bloodthirsty the further east they go (where there is greater competition, mainly from Arab / Muslim traders and their allies).
It appears that the Portuguese also still carried much 'Reconquista' anger and enmity towards all Muslims they encountered despite the Portuguese achieving their independence from Muslim overlords in 1147 when they took Lisbon, some 350 years before Vasco da Gama entered the Indian Ocean.
Lots of history and voyages to explore, but I think you are right in that the 1500s is the start of their brutal rivalry with Muslims and others in the Indian Ocean and along its trade routes, and this continued in India.
CarlL

Quote from: CarlL on July 06, 2023, 11:58:59 AMIt appears that the Portuguese also still carried much 'Reconquista' anger and enmity towards all Muslims they encountered despite the Portuguese achieving their independence from Muslim overlords in 1147 when they took Lisbon, some 350 years before Vasco da Gama entered the Indian Ocean.

Though remember they had nearly a century of fighting in Muslim Morocco before this.  Warfare wise, Morocco was different, though, as putting Portugese boots on the ground was much easier logistically.

For completeness I am posting here rather than under Army Array or currently painting although I will put notes there, to see images here!

Well this Portuguese Colonial force was sparked off by an article in 'Lone Warrior' 221, by George Arnold, who was re-visiting and re-organising a solo campaign game (to generate battles) in the El Cid period of Spanish history. And  I thought it would be interesting to create a simple DBA campaign of the Portuguese 'buccaneers' of the late 15th century (and possibly early 16th) who terrorised (in Viking style) coastal Africa and the Indian Ocean (and in process, by chance, discovered Brazil). But first I needed a DBA Portuguese colonial 'army', so I turned to unfinished (unused) late medieval and renaissance figures (from my lead mountain) and found a mix of suitable 25mm and 28mm figures to give me 12 elements (bases) of 3 figures each, half swordsmen (shield and buckler style) and half crossbowmen. Of course megalomania (lead style) took over and (with help of new purchases) it soon became a BIG DBA army of 24 bases of swordsmen and 12 of crossbowmen, then 12 bases of arquebusiers to replace (or reinforce) the crossbowmen. Next a few DBR style skirmisher bases were added from left over figures! Then the bug having bitten me I bought and converted (well only the hair styles) 24 swordsmen and 12 arquebusiers to make Swahili allies or possibly Gold Coast allies.  (I have not yet found any references to Portuguese training them to fight in Portuguese style nor to any 'slave' soldiers being trained by the Portuguese, but that's a different story.)

So here are the Portuguese arrayed for battle, sorry photo shoot, 4 ranks deep, 36 figures (or 12 bases) wide, with a few lurkers on the flanks in skirmish style; the 'African' allies are painted but bases still drying so they will have to wait for another photo shoot. At one figure = one real person this would probably be a fairly accurate mock up of their big landing parties that caused havoc all the way to India!! I recall only one invasion army being gathered to teach the 'Moors' of East Africa and India a lesson, and from memory, I think there were twelve ships, their crews and 1200 soldiers in all; a BIG army for Portuguese colonial adventures of this time (bar the failed conquest of Morocco).

The flags or banners are courtesy of Freezywater Flags (now only trading through the Lance & Longbow Society, which I joined recently). Their journal, the 'Hobilar' has three excellent articles on the medieval Portuguese in Iberia (and the same plus other banners) in issue 32, all by Richard Sisson, but I am sad to say I cannot name the artist who created the beautiful banners). I have resized them to fit different banner-men in my array. Except for the ill fated Moroccan expedition, I don't think the Portuguese king ever lead a force abroad. So my use of these flags is not historical albeit the flags are historically accurate, I believe.

At this time I understand that few Portuguese retinues had uniforms, and that the colonial forces were often a mix of adventure (and fortune) seeking nobles, with some professional sailors from a number of countries, and often 'ruffians' for crew (in the manner of Wellesley describing his soldiers in the Peninsular campaign) all probably dressed individually in civilian style. I relied on Ian Heath and George Gush for inspiration with regard to possible colours and styles of dress for my Portuguese, (as ever in my own bright style of paint job).

For the (not yet photographed) African allies, I added exaggerated Shona hairstyles, (because I couldn't manipulate the milliput as finely as the Shona could tie their hair) as shown in John Laband's 'Bringers of War' (photo 22). My previous West Sudanese may yet find themselves representing the Zimba of the interior of East Africa at some point when my campaign gets into action.

CarlL

A few more snaps. CarlL

You're clearly not a man who minds mixing manufacturers in his units, Carl 

They do look a rum bunch, though. Just itching for some robust "trading and exploration".

A good-looking assortment, Carl.