Byzantine catapults

[aligern]

Like this then?
http://www.stormthecastle.com/catapult/tabletop-crossbow.htm
medieval tension catapault.

Roy

[aligern]

Interesting concept the square framed springald. However, i was puzzled by the author's claim that there was not enough sinew available in Medieval Europe!!

Roy

[Duncan Head]

Yes - whether he gets that from Liebl or David Nicolle (I haven't looked at his Ospreys on medieval siege equipment yet) or just guessed at it, I do not know. Nor does it seem likely that the technique for making sinew rope would have been lost (http://ballista.wikia.com/wiki/Making_sinew_spring_cord is an interesting outline). I'd guess that hair rope is simpler and probably cheaper, though?

[Erpingham]

Yes - whether he gets that from Liebl or David Nicolle (I haven't looked at his Ospreys on medieval siege equipment yet) or just guessed at it, I do not know.

Looking at Nicolle on-line, he reckons that European torsion artillery was powered by horse or cattle hair ropes, rather than sinew.

[tadamson]

Sinew looses much of its elasticity when wet or damp.  This can be an issue in much of Europe.   

[tobypartridge]

Which Haldon is the reference to the sliders and windlasses in?  And does he give a primary reference?

[Erpingham]

Which Haldon is the reference to the sliders and windlasses in?  And does he give a primary reference?

John Haldon, Oxford Handbook of Byzantine studies , Chapter II.8.8 , pp.478-80. I think it is on p.479.  I don't currently have access to it but I don't recall a specific reference in the text.

[aligern]

Checked and there is not a specific reference in the text to the other sources that jay be describing windlass or slider.
Roy

[stevenneate]

Hope you're going to turn this into some sort of article(s) for Slingshot Toby?  You've got  a classic start - 'I wanted to put some catapults in my army as per an army list and this is what else I discovered'.  Give it a go and see what you come up with!

[aligern]

Yes Tobu, good idea
You might care to look at the debate on RAT: http://www.romanarmytalk.com/17-roman-military-history-a-archaeology/322178-roman-steel-bow-ballista.html

Though why would the Romans need a steel bow for a tension catapault when they could have a very effective composite bow made already.


Roy

[Erpingham]

Though why would the Romans need a steel bow for a tension catapault when they could have a very effective composite bow made already.


Roy

Never seen the suggestion that Romans used sprung steel bows before - usually thought of as a medieval metalurgical advance in the West (doubtless the Chinese did it centuries earlier).

[David Kush]

I'm sorry I can't remember the source off the top of my head. It described "tension", e.g. big crossbows, catapults with sliding fire proof holders so it could fire stones, bolts and incendiaries. Apparently there was a problem shooting flamming material through the frame of a traditional torsion weapon. One was  mounted on either end of a wagon. If memory serves it was quoting a 9th century source. I am puzzling out how to model it in 15mm on a 40x40mm base.I'll keep looking for its origin.

[aligern]

Had a thought about modelling the tension catapault. They appear to be like a ballista, but with a different front end. The slide and windlass set up is the same, as is the base. So to make a. tension catapault just remove the box structure from the front of the ballista and replace it with a cuved piece of wiire, binding the bow onto the frame with some thread.

Roy