Mozarabic dragon standard

[aligern]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WXc1UbTxPiQ/UCbWDTBP0VI/AAAAAAAAeJI/jpXFeXkqmac/s640/OVIEDO+CRUZ0003.jpg

Has a picture of a standard from a Mozarabic (Christian Andalusian) Spanish manuscript of c 960
Blow me down it isn't a draco.

Roy

[Jim Webster]

Fascinating, I wonder how widely they survived in the martial traditions of post-Roman Europe

Jim

[aligern]

Either it is transmitted via the Visigoths, or via the Arabs or the Mozarabic illustrator is copying a Late Roman original. What holds me back on the latter is that the figures are nit classicised at all. The other standards look like poor representations of the draco which dies suggest repeated copying.

Roy

[Duncan Head]

Either it is transmitted via the Visigoths, or via the Arabs or the Mozarabic illustrator is copying a Late Roman original.

Or it could even have come into Spain with the Carolingian "Spanish March".

[Sharur]

I'm guessing the image originated in one of copy/version of Beatus of Liebana's "Commentary on the Apocalyse", so it's very possible it was a misunderstood copy of someone else's illustration of the passage involved. A quick search online will bring up a lot more illustrations which are to an extent similar, though not all are Mozarabic. Although I didn't spot any further draco standards among them, there are other types on some, as well as some oversized swords which could be mistaken for dracos or simple pennant standards. I did though come across a curious standard towards the top right on this battle scene: http://fineartamerica.com/featured/battlescene-975-granger.html . You can zoom in, but it still looks weirdly like a sundial with an attached streamer!

[Duncan Head]

I'm sure it's been suggested that the Vikings used flags that shape - based on ships' weathervanes.

[Erpingham]

I'm sure it's been suggested that the Vikings used flags that shape - based on ships' weathervanes.

See for example the coin here http://www.christophermcevasco.com/2011/09/19/landoydan-a-bird-in-the-hand/ - although there is no reason why this doesn't show a demounted weather vane, or for that matter that demounted weather vanes couldn't have served as standards.  I suspect that the flag came first, then the metal equivalent - does anyone know?

[Sharur]

So not a sundial then - hadn't thought of a weather vane. Makes sense though, as it's likely the cloth banners on standards would have been used to help missile troops better gauge the wind.

And a quick Google search confirms that bit of speculation (although admittedly often with just more)!

Of course, there's a Wikipedia page on weather vanes, but that's not especially helpful for early examples, so try the following pair:

http://www.ferroweathervanes.com/History_ancient_weathervanes.htm

and:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/3524/#b .

The first is more detailed, and includes a nice photo of a metal Viking vane of this curve-edged-triangle form. The second one has a poorer photo of the same metal vane, plus a shot of the Bayeux Tapestry weathercock, but a lot less descriptive text.

For anyone interested, you can find a PDF version of Neumann & Parpola's 1983 Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society Vol. 64 article, "Wind Vanes in Ancient Mesopotamia About 2000-1500 B.C." (the paper the Sumerian and Akkadian weather vane information derived from on Dave Ferro's webpage, but not linked to from there) at:

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0477(1983)064%3C1141%3AWVIAMA%3E2.0.CO%3B2 .

[Erpingham]

You can access a host of pics simply by googling "Viking weather vane", including some nice reconstructions with tassels or pendants attached where the holes round the rim are. 

[Imperial Dave]

I'm sure it's been suggested that the Vikings used flags that shape - based on ships' weathervanes.

See for example the coin here http://www.christophermcevasco.com/2011/09/19/landoydan-a-bird-in-the-hand/ - although there is no reason why this doesn't show a demounted weather vane, or for that matter that demounted weather vanes couldn't have served as standards.  I suspect that the flag came first, then the metal equivalent - does anyone know?

Although slightly off topic, I found the article on the possible fate of Harald's Land waster banner to be extremely interesting in its own right