Polybian Scuta Design

[Citizen6]

Hi all

I have tried to find for some time images / sculpture that shows any potential colouring or design on early Polybian scuta. All the examples of scuta I can find are smooth in the carvings, though I'm aware that they may have been coloured at one time. It's easy to find carved examples showing designs on Greek and Imperial shields which are temporally before and after. Polybius only mentions a covering in hide as far as I'm aware. Does anyone know:

1. was the hide true hide (ie. hair covered) or is this a loose translation that actually refers to leather?
2. is there any suggestion that the scuta were coloured (other than hide shades)
3. is there any suggestion that that had other designs, insignia, crests etc on them

Cheers

Rhys

[Duncan Head]

Polybios says that the scutum is covered in calfskin - moscheio dermati. Derma is skin or hide:

δέρμα , ατος, τό, (δέρω)
A.skin, hide, "συός" Il.9.548, al.; "κριοῦ" Pi.P.4 161; "δ. αἴγειον" PEdgar11.8 (iii B. C.), etc.; λέοντος a lion's skin for a cloak, Il.10.23; κελαινόν, of a shield, 6.117; of skins prepared for bags, bottles, etc., Od.2.291; of a man's skin, Il.16.341, Od.13.431, Pl.Phd.98d, etc.; of a man's skin stripped off, Hdt.4.64, 5.25; "παλαιὸν δ." A.Fr.275.4; "περὶ τῷ δ. δέδοικα" Ar.Eq.27, cf. Pax746; "ἀνὴρ κατὰ δέρμα θαυμαστὸς οἷος" Aristid.Or.51(27).38; of the shell of a tortoise, Ar.V.429,1292.

So it looks more like raw hide than treated leather, but whether it's still hair-covered may be too much to tell.

As far as I know there is very little evidence for early Roman shields having any design, except for the Tarragona relief of Minerva with a wolf-head boss that Sekunda uses in his Osprey illustrations. Livy 27.47 has Hasdrubal identifying new Roman troops from their "old shields which he had not seen before", but that need not mean that they had distinctive designs: in fact, if you could tell one legion from another by its design, that would be a far more obvious thing to mention. About the earliest scutum blazon I have seen is on the Praeneste fish mosaic which may date from about 100 BC.

[Citizen6]

Thanks for that Duncan....I had pretty much come to a similar conclusion but just wanted to hear from others wiser than me on the topic.

Cheers

Rhys

[tobypartridge]

It's possible that the old shields had weathered or discolored more, which made them distinctive from the ones he had seen previously.

[Patrick Waterson]

As far as I know there is very little evidence for early Roman shields having any design, except for the Tarragona relief of Minerva with a wolf-head boss that Sekunda uses in his Osprey illustrations. Livy 27.47 has Hasdrubal identifying new Roman troops from their "old shields which he had not seen before", but that need not mean that they had distinctive designs: in fact, if you could tell one legion from another by its design, that would be a far more obvious thing to mention.

In this connection the Cannae stories of 'deserters' joining the fight after somehow acquiring Roman shields, which I take to indicate that when Hannibal's Romanised veterans closed in from flanks and rear they were initially mistaken for friendly troops, would suggest a universal shield design with no unit-related designations, otherwise even the dullest optio would realise that Flaminius' legions could not possibly be part of their present army.

[gavindbm]

I have a trace memory (and thus very possibly wrong) of reading (in a secondary source) that when Scipio took over in Spain he has a go at someone for having a too pretty shield (I.e. might be afraid to get it damaged). 

(Advanced apologies for possible inaccurate info - too busy/late to try to find it!)

[Duncan Head]

Scipio Africanus, noticing the shield of a certain soldier rather elaborately decorated, said he didn't wonder the man had adopted it with such care, seeing that he put more trust in it than in his sword.

Seeing a soldier very intent on displaying the elegance of his shield; "It is a shame," said Scipio, "for a Roman to pride himself more on the ornament of his left hand, than of his right."

There's another version in Livy, in the Periochae (summaries) of the lost Book LVII:

Scipio Africanus [Aemilianus] besieged Numantia ...  to one who had difficulty with his shield, he said "although you are carrying a shield that is larger than prescribed, I don't blame you, because you know better how to manage a shield than to manage a sword".

Which does suggest the possibility that the original anecdote may have had nothing to do with painting the shield.

[Citizen6]

Well that is all excellent info, thanks everyone.

Duncan, you never cease to amaze with the rapidity with which you pop out obscure references.

My original reason for asking was that I am painting up some 15mm Polybian Romans. I have always thought that the nice uniform ranks with matching coloured shields that you see in magazines etc were a bit false. Even in modern times with mass production equipment and uniforms end up being non-standard in war (eg. WW2 Germany and Russia) so in a period where each soldier provided their own gear, there would have been little uniformity (except perhaps the wearing of a particular item of colour eg. red cloak). I have gone with different shades of white through red for clothing with the triarii and principes more red than pink/white while velites and hastati are more pink/white than red - figuring the older veterans could probably afford better dye quality or newer clothes. I have read somewhere that colour was more a concept in the ancient world than what we consider today, so red for example would represent a much wider spectrum of shades than we would identify). I have also used different shades of leather (straw through dark brown) for the scuta and I actually think they look alright.

[Duncan Head]

Duncan, you never cease to amaze with the rapidity with which you pop out obscure references.

Sometimes I cheat.

(I did remember Frontinus under my own steam, but then the version on Lacus Curtius had links to the other two.)

[aligern]

Interesting that the anecdote is about the sword, clearly the prime definer  of a legionary's  trade.
Roy

[Erpingham]

Which does suggest the possibility that the original anecdote may have had nothing to do with painting the shield.

Perhaps, but the idea that an individual soldier had a fancy shield, fancier than his unit, seems to be accepted as possible.  This doesn't necessarily mean each man has an individual design but may imply personal responsibility for painting the shield.

[Duncan Head]

Perhaps, but the idea that an individual soldier had a fancy shield, fancier than his unit, seems to be accepted as possible.

If only by writers several centuries after the date of the anecdote.

[Patrick Waterson]

I have always thought that the nice uniform ranks with matching coloured shields that you see in magazines etc were a bit false. Even in modern times with mass production equipment and uniforms end up being non-standard in war (eg. WW2 Germany and Russia) so in a period where each soldier provided their own gear, there would have been little uniformity (except perhaps the wearing of a particular item of colour eg. red cloak). I have gone with different shades of white through red for clothing with the triarii and principes more red than pink/white while velites and hastati are more pink/white than red - figuring the older veterans could probably afford better dye quality or newer clothes. I have read somewhere that colour was more a concept in the ancient world than what we consider today, so red for example would represent a much wider spectrum of shades than we would identify).

This would seem to be a good approach for painting Romans who spend some time away from home (e.g. with various Scipios in Spain) and have to rely on their own ingenuity/cash in hand and local resources to replace old and worn clothing.  Romans operating in Italy or on a single campaign basis elsewhere might present a more uniform appearance if only because they would most probably have a fresh tunic at the start of the campaign (assuming they want to get picked first by the tribunes as per Polybius VI.20) and the local dyers probably do only the one shade of red.

Some variation in shades of red for troops from different areas might be noticeable unless the senate had at some point insisted on standardisation.

[AdamPHayes]

Some variation in shades of red for troops from different areas might be noticeable unless the senate had at some point insisted on standardisation.

If they wore red...

[Mark G]

And therein lies a new thread, bring supplies for that one, i think