Suppliers of Model Ships from the Classical Period

[eques]

Hi

Can anyone point me to some? I know of Xyston.  Not too concerned about scale, other than I don't want to spend more than a tenner a ship.

Thanks

[Jim Webster]

What scale, Irregular Miniatures do some generic boats that are about 1/300 which is what most people seem to use with 15mm armies

[eques]

Not too bothered about scale (other than I know that once you get to 1/72 scale they get too expensive, even in plastic)

[Prufrock]

There's Langton, who do 1/300 and 1/1200: http://www.rodlangton.com/ancient/ancframe.htm

Also Roman Seas if you're happy to make your models: http://www.romanseas.com/roman_models.html

[Erpingham]

Two that might fit with Xyston are

Warrior 1/650

http://www.warrioronline.demon.co.uk/ships/ships.htm

Skytrex 1/600

http://www.skytrex.com/1600th-ancient-galleys_c5968.aspx

PS  Bit of an oversight, I forgot Navwar 1/1200 (to go with langton)

http://navwar.co.uk/nav/default.asp?MMID=79

[Sharur]

Also Roman Seas if you're happy to make your models: http://www.romanseas.com/roman_models.html

These downloadable PDF models are currently part of the August Classics Sale on Wargame Vault, so they're 20% off list price, but only till the end of August (US time-zone, so still just over two days UK time from this posting). The prices converted to Sterling (current PayPal conversion) makes that between one and two quid per ship model (dependent on the set), which you can then print as many times as you like, leaving at least eight quid per model available for printer ink, photo-quality card stock, craft knives and paper glue to come in under your suggested budget, Harry. And no painting, of course, as they're pre-coloured.

They're designed as 6mm/1:300 scale models, but having picked up several sets yesterday, I'd think they would print-off with enough clarity to work as 15mm scale ones too, and maybe larger. Haven't done any test-prints yet, though. Plus of course being PDFs, if you needed to customise any aspects for non-commercial use, you could load them into a graphics program like the free GIMP software, and change/add colours, textures, etc. to suit - assuming you're familiar with the software at least.

Worth saying that these paper/card minis also have sets of Roman buildings in the same scale available, including a port set with ship-sheds. Couldn't resist some of these as well, so can confirm the artwork looks equally good. Not so sure they'd scale-up as well; probably be a little too "flat" in texture, but likely worth a try at least!

[Prufrock]

They're designed as 6mm/1:300 scale models, but having picked up several sets yesterday, I'd think they would print-off with enough clarity to work as 15mm scale ones too, and maybe larger. Haven't done any test-prints yet, though. Plus of course being PDFs, if you needed to customise any aspects for non-commercial use, you could load them into a graphics program like the free GIMP software, and change/add colours, textures, etc. to suit - assuming you're familiar with the software at least.

Worth saying that these paper/card minis also have sets of Roman buildings in the same scale available, including a port set with ship-sheds. Couldn't resist some of these as well, so can confirm the artwork looks equally good. Not so sure they'd scale-up as well; probably be a little too "flat" in texture, but likely worth a try at least!

Would love to hear how you get on with these. I've been tempted to pick some up, but have so far managed to resist...

[Sharur]

Aaron: I had a thorough trawl of the Hotz Artworks/Roman Seas website after you thoughtfully gave that link in your earlier posting. I'd meant to check it out sooner, but of course forgot...

Couple of points on the rescaling, I discovered. One is the artwork is vector art in the PDFs, which means it'll rescale to whatever size you want with no loss of clarity, and assuming you can find a printer capable of handling the sheet-sizes. The other is Bruce Moore has already rescaled the ships to 15mm, and used them - photo page here, which gives a real impression of the size of the vessels this way, on a six-by-eight-foot table.

Went back and bought still more of the ships and buildings today - last day of the sale, after all. If you're thinking of getting some samples, this is a good time to go for it. If you download the free catalogue first, that'll show you what you're getting. Weirdly though, you can't print this version I discovered, though the PDF catalogues that come bundled with the models, you can! If you're considering the Carthaginian Fleet set, don't do what I did, buy the ships and then decide to go for the rules later, because the only version of the downloadable rules comes with a "free" set of these vessels too... Hey ho; still, it was in the sale!

Could wish there'd been more models produced recently. There are gaps in the military buildings still (e.g. no rounded corner walls for forts, very few timber buildings, no pallisade walling), plus some Greek and Egyptian craft would have been welcome additions to the ships. While the Yahoo group continues to be very occasionally active (3 posts total in 2014, 4 so far in 2015), and there's been talk of a revised set of the rules for several years, I don't think there's been a new or even updated model product in about six years.

[Prufrock]

Thanks, Alastair. They sound good finished, but I don't know if I'd have the patience to make them up!

[Sharur]

They sound good finished, but I don't know if I'd have the patience to make them up!

Honestly, I'd say it takes no longer to make and base the average downloadable papercraft model (figure, ship or building) than it would to prepare, paint and base a cast model of similar size. Somewhat different skill set, naturally, and partly dependent on how much detail you want to add beyond the basic kit (kitbashed building interiors, for example, if they're not part of the original). However, most of the basic Roman Seas ships have just eight or ten pieces (not including the sail), some not even that many. As with most craft things, it may seem daunting till you actually give it a try!

[Chuck the Grey]

Alastair, have you any experience in reducing the size of the Roman Seas vessels to say 1/900, matching the size of Valiant's Ramming Speed line of ships? My concern would be resolution of detail and difficulties in cutting and gluing at that size.

[Sharur]

Alastair, have you any experience in reducing the size of the Roman Seas vessels to say 1/900, matching the size of Valiant's Ramming Speed line of ships? My concern would be resolution of detail and difficulties in cutting and gluing at that size.

Not as yet; only just printed-off the game rules yesterday, and haven't got round to deciding which ships to try (bought rather a lot of their sets, including the land buildings...). Plus the game also comes with a full set of ship counters - and the time to print and make up counters is dramatically shorter than making model ships, of course! I have to say too, I was actually more interested using them as 1/300 scale models, or scaling them up to 15mm.

However, just looking at the model and construction pages, it will certainly be more difficult to make the craft, but I'd say not impossible, if you already have the tools for handling cast 1/900 scale ships (tweezers and fine knife blades especially), and are used to building such small constructions. You may need to consider a lighter weight stock for printing them on than the recommended 67 lb to 80 lb card, but there's a good range of photo-quality matt printer papers available these days in many weights, so that shouldn't be a problem. Might need some experimentation though. You will certainly lose some detail definition, because that always happens when you reduce the scale of any paper models like this, but likely no more so than you do when comparing a cast metal 1/900 scale ship against a 1/300 scale one.

Just to give an idea, the basic "Roman Seas" Roman trireme, without masts or sails, consists of twelve parts: one deck plate, two sides, one rowing walkway roof (which is optional), two outriggers, two oar plates, two inner hull artwork pieces (again optional) and a two-piece ram (which also is optional). Artwork for both ram and a flat rowing walkway roof are already on the ship's side pieces and deck plate respectively, so you don't really need to add either (they simply thicken those areas for a better 3D look on the finished ship), while omitting the inner hull art just means you'll have an unprinted white card interior between the deck plate and the top of the deck-rail/ship's sides. The sides glue together at prow (+ ram) and stern; the deck plate (which includes the outrigger "box" tops) simply slots through a slit cut in each side; then you glue the outrigger boxes in place to the deck plate and ship's sides, using what will be very small tabs in places in 1/900 scale certainly; and finally glue the oar plates for each side into the outriggers, again using small tabs. It would be possible to make the tabs larger by simply leaving more of the surrounding card when you cut the ship pieces out, though you might need to trim them a little subsequently to get a proper fit. You'd expect to have to be a little creative sometimes in such a rescaling project though, so I'd say none of this would be insurmountable. Not easy either, but not impossible 

[willb]

http://www.outpostwargameservices.co.uk/naval_ranges.htm
makes a range of fairly inexpensive ships

[Chuck the Grey]

Thanks Alastair. You confirmed what I was thinking. I'd like to know what you think of the Roman seas vessels when you have time to assemble some of them.

[valentinianvictor]

I have used the Roman Sea's PDF's for some years now and heartily recommend the ships and the buildings to everyone. Very easy to put together, just a little bit of glueing needed, no painting at all apart from the base you put the models on. And the often overlooked attraction that they weigh next to nothing, an entire fleet would probably weigh less than half a pound at most. They work for 15mm scale without resizing as the ships I used, Later Roman liburna, fit just nicely on the DBMM bases.