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8thC AD Gurjara-Pratihara dynasty

Started by rodge, September 08, 2015, 10:50:56 AM

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rodge

Could anyone point me at any information that might let me have a stab at an army list for Nagabhata I of the northern Indian Gurjara-Pratihara dynasty c. 725AD? I fancy looking at the action at Avanti against the Umayyads.
Al Masudi has some references about the later (9th-10th C) armies,  but nothing about the make up of a force, just the (bonkers) size of one (c. 700,000-900000).
It may well be that the army is rather like a Classical Indian one minus Elephants as I have read that the Gurjara-Pratiharas did not have the terrain to support them.

Patrick Waterson

Hmmm ... back in the time of the Mahabharata, the Avanti kingdom as it was then was considered powerful:

QuoteRating by Bhishma:- Vinda and Anuvinda of Avanti are both regarded as excellent Rathas. "These two heroes among men will consume the troops of thy foes, with maces and bearded darts, and swords and long shafts, and javelins hurled from their hands. Like a couple of (elephant) leaders sporting in the midst of their herds, these two princes longing for battle, will range the field, each like Yama himself." (Mahabharat 5.167)

"Suvala's son Sakuni, and Salya, Jayadratha and the two princes of Avanti named Vinda and Anuvinda, and the Kekaya brothers, and Sudakshina the ruler of the Kamvojas and Srutayudha the ruler of the Kalingas, and king Jayatsena, and Vrihadvala the ruler of the Kosalas, and Kritavarman of Satwata's race,--these ten tigers among men, endued with great bravery and possessing arms that looked like maces stood each at the head of an Akshauhini of troops". (idem 6.16)"

Intervening centuries campaigns and political changes may have wrought significant differences, although Avanti seems to have remained a top-rank region for some time, but back then it looks as if elephant availability was not a problem, hence the simile of 'leaders sporting in the midst of their herds'.  On the assumption that the area had not been subjected to total deforestation, I would feel inclined to let Nagabhata I have at least a moderate number of elephants.

Anyone else with thoughts/information/evidence to add?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

Duncan Head

You may have seen this - is it your source for "no elephants"?

There's also http://horsesandswords.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/imperial-pratiharas-as-first-of-rajput.html though it doesn't say all that much except that the cavalry was particularly good, a quotation found in several other places - note here on horse imports. 

In DB* terms, you're probably looking at the Desert Rajput option from the Hindu Indian list.
Duncan Head

rodge

Quote from: Duncan Head on September 08, 2015, 11:52:39 AM
You may have seen this - is it your source for "no elephants"?

It's one of them. There is another google book that mentions it but I can't find it now.
I will have a look at DB*

Patrick Waterson

Quoting from the last of Duncan's links:
QuoteFrom contemporary literature the titles prevalent among the Rajputs were: baladhikrta (a military officer put in charge of a town), mahayudhapati (officer in charge of the arsenal), mahapratihara (chief of the palace guards), pilupati, asvapati and paikkadhipati (commanders of the elephant, horse and infantry forces).

Might be a clue ...
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

rodge


Duncan Head

Quote from: Patrick Waterson on September 08, 2015, 08:36:12 PMFrom contemporary literature the titles prevalent among the Rajputs were: ... (commanders of the elephant ...

"Rajputs" of course covers multiple states, not all of which may have been in country quite as un-elephant-friendly as the Pratiharas, and the precise date of the references in that link is not given as far as I can see. Certainly Andre Wink here suggests that later Gurjara-Pratihara kings had more elephants than any other contemporary Indian ruler, but that's after the conquest of Kanauj and wouldn't apply to the 8th century. I'd still be very cautious about using more than a bare minimum of elephants.
Duncan Head

rodge

I was just going to allow 1 Elephant unit

Patrick Waterson

Maybe stretch to one elephant unit and the option for another (to allow an elephant contingent on each flank) but otherwise I agree with Duncan, best to be conservative for this period albeit without depriving the army entirely.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill