Oh no, not another Camelot!

[Imperial Dave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-38330272

Sigh,

when will people get tired of coming up with these things.....

[Duncan Head]

I thought it was near Arbela?

(wanders off singing "We dine well here in GauGamelot, We eat ham and jam and camel a lot...")

[Erpingham]

Hebden Bridge has a lot in common with places like Tintagel and Glastonbury.  Strange inhabitants, craft shops, superfoods.  Coincidence?  I think not.

[Jim Webster]

Hebden Bridge has a lot in common with places like Tintagel and Glastonbury.  Strange inhabitants, craft shops, superfoods.  Coincidence?  I think not.

stands to reason dunnit
but 'they' don't want you to know about it

because

[Tim]

Duncan

Maybe you are on to something.  Alexander and Gordion Knot - maybe it was Excaliber (would certainly fit with the legends).  Knights heading off to the mysterious East searching for the Holy Grail.  Eumenes as Merlin...

Time to redo the Sub-Roman list?

Regards
Tim

[Imperial Dave]

there are a lot of people hawking their own version of what may or may not have happened between 200AD and 700AD (this is to allow for all the Arthurs  ) .

Good luck to them

They're wrong as Arthur was my great (to the power 50) grandfather and lived just down the road from me and we kept the sword (its up in my attic)

[Tim]

Ah but was he Cornish Roman, Welsh Roman, V(an)illa Roman or some Frankish Jonny-come-lately 3rd/4th Century raider mercenary who became Comes Britanniarum or comes littoris Saxonici per Britanniam

[Tim]

Oh and I forgot 'hetairoi' as Knights of the Round Table...

[Patrick Waterson]

"In Roman times, Slack was home to a fort called Camulodunum, which means "the fort of the god Camul".

Over the years, well-recognised linguistic processes would have reduced Camulodunum to Camelot."

Not sure if anyone noticed, but there is another place called Camulodunum and it just happens to be the traditional capital of Roman Britain ...

Duncan

Maybe you are on to something.  Alexander and Gordion Knot - maybe it was Excaliber (would certainly fit with the legends).  Knights heading off to the mysterious East searching for the Holy Grail.  Eumenes as Merlin...

Or the seer Aristander ...

[Imperial Dave]

We just used to call him 'Duck'

on a semi serious note, having spent a few aimless hours looking at various word/name/place connections with a possible Arthur or a possible Camlan or a possible Camelot etc etc ad infinitum, ad nauseum......its a fool's errand. With a jaundiced eye you can make a lot of things 'fit' with a certain interpretation (depending on your own personal interpretation mind you)

[Duncan Head]

They're wrong as Arthur was my great (to the power 50) grandfather and lived just down the road from me and we kept the sword (its up in my attic)

Ah, Anthony Burgess' Any Old Iron? The old iron in that, IIRC, was the Sword of Mars carried by Attila, subsequently passed on to Arthur, and then indeed handed down through a Welsh family...

[Patrick Waterson]

on a semi serious note, having spent a few aimless hours looking at various word/name/place connections with a possible Arthur or a possible Camlan or a possible Camelot etc etc ad infinitum, ad nauseum......its a fool's errand.

The interesting thing about Camulodunum (the one in Essex) is that one does not really need to look - it is there, and everything just falls into place: administrative capital, equine resources, proximity of Chelmsford at the point where the Chelmer ceases to be navigable as a natural rendezvous point for a usurper and his continental Saxon allies.  Deducing Camelot and Camlann from the names is hardly even necessary - that is really just icing on the cake.

One of the lessons of historical research is never trust just names - and never trust anyone whose research hangs on names only, or for that matter just on interpretations or definitions of words.  Look for context, events, actions - and then, if the names also work out (they usually do), that is a bonus.

[Erpingham]

The problem with Camoludunum as a literal Camelot is that Camelot enters the written record in the 12th Century.  The name Camoludunum hadn't been used for Colchester for centuries by then, so is unlikely to be familiar to a French romance writer as a real place.  He may have read the name of the capital of Britannia in Latin literature and decided that it was suitable as Arthur's capital but it is unlikely he was referring to a known location.

[Patrick Waterson]

The problem with Camoludunum as a literal Camelot is that Camelot enters the written record in the 12th Century.  The name Camoludunum hadn't been used for Colchester for centuries by then, so is unlikely to be familiar to a French romance writer as a real place.  He may have read the name of the capital of Britannia in Latin literature and decided that it was suitable as Arthur's capital but it is unlikely he was referring to a known location.

I am quite sure he was not referring it to a known location: he would have picked up 'Camelot' from a trail of Gaelic and Grail literature, and would have failed to make any down-to-earth connection with Colchester itself.  Had he actually worked out where it was, we would not currently be paying any attention to Welsh and Cornish locations with questionable place-names.

[Duncan Head]

The problem with Camoludunum as a literal Camelot is that Camelot enters the written record in the 12th Century.  The name Camoludunum hadn't been used for Colchester for centuries by then, so is unlikely to be familiar to a French romance writer as a real place.  He may have read the name of the capital of Britannia in Latin literature and decided that it was suitable as Arthur's capital but it is unlikely he was referring to a known location.

I am quite sure he was not referring it to a known location: he would have picked up 'Camelot' from a trail of Gaelic and Grail literature...

Hang on - if "Camelot enters the written record in the 12th Century" (as "Camaalot" in Chrétien de Troyes) then what "trail of Gaelic and Grail literature" is there for him to get the name from?