More on early war chariots

[Erpingham]

This thesis may be of interest to lovers of wheeled fighting vehicles.  Covers India and China among others.

Despite being a Portugese thesis, it is in English.

[Justin Swanton]

I'm curious about the Sumerian 4-wheeled vehicle. How exactly was it meant to be used?

The first military vehicle used in west Asia consisted of slow-moving, four wheeled wagons, as shown on the famous Standard of Ur. The earliest of these vehiclesdate to the earlier third millennium B.C. (ED period), and remained in active use until c.2300 B.C. after which were relegated to a ceremonial function. These vehiclessuffered from severe limitations, derived from their design. The narrowness of the floor(avg. 0.5m) made it an awkward fire platform, considering that the javelin throwerwould travel behind the driver. The axles, much larger than the platform (avg. 0.7 -1.0m), and fixed to the cart with the wheels revolving on them, show no evidence of horizontal articulation, which would have a considerable detrimental effect on themanoeuvrability of the vehicle.

[Jim Webster]

I'm curious about the Sumerian 4-wheeled vehicle. How exactly was it meant to be used?

The first military vehicle used in west Asia consisted of slow-moving, four wheeled wagons, as shown on the famous Standard of Ur. The earliest of these vehiclesdate to the earlier third millennium B.C. (ED period), and remained in active use until c.2300 B.C. after which were relegated to a ceremonial function. These vehiclessuffered from severe limitations, derived from their design. The narrowness of the floor(avg. 0.5m) made it an awkward fire platform, considering that the javelin throwerwould travel behind the driver. The axles, much larger than the platform (avg. 0.7 -1.0m), and fixed to the cart with the wheels revolving on them, show no evidence of horizontal articulation, which would have a considerable detrimental effect on themanoeuvrability of the vehicle.

There is some considerable discussion 

Some people think they could only go in straight lines, others think differently. Some consider a steady trundle about as fast as it got. Again there are arguments.
Hasn't somebody built a replica?

[Justin Swanton]

I'm curious about the Sumerian 4-wheeled vehicle. How exactly was it meant to be used?

The first military vehicle used in west Asia consisted of slow-moving, four wheeled wagons, as shown on the famous Standard of Ur. The earliest of these vehiclesdate to the earlier third millennium B.C. (ED period), and remained in active use until c.2300 B.C. after which were relegated to a ceremonial function. These vehiclessuffered from severe limitations, derived from their design. The narrowness of the floor(avg. 0.5m) made it an awkward fire platform, considering that the javelin throwerwould travel behind the driver. The axles, much larger than the platform (avg. 0.7 -1.0m), and fixed to the cart with the wheels revolving on them, show no evidence of horizontal articulation, which would have a considerable detrimental effect on themanoeuvrability of the vehicle.

There is some considerable discussion 

Of course! They functioned just like the Macedonian cavalry wedge, pushing between the infantry files whilst the javelin man (actually a spearman) jabbed at the disorientated infantrymen on either side of him. Should have worked it out right from the start...

[Erpingham]

Duncan Noble, author of Dawn of the Horse Warriors: Chariot and Cavalry Warfare, 3000-600BC , is said by the publisher to have built a replica for the BBC. 

[Erpingham]

Of course! They functioned just like the Macedonian cavalry wedge, pushing between the infantry files whilst the javelin man (actually a spearman) jabbed at the disorientated infantrymen on either side of him. Should have worked it out right from the start...

The fact they were pulled by unicorns should have been a dead give away

[Nick Harbud]

Not sure about Sumerian chariots, but certainly there has been an attempt at building an Egyptian chariot.  Not only that, but you can watch the movie.   

Also, forget the muscle cars, I really want to try this.  No Congestion Charge either.... 

[Justin Swanton]

Of course! They functioned just like the Macedonian cavalry wedge, pushing between the infantry files whilst the javelin man (actually a spearman) jabbed at the disorientated infantrymen on either side of him. Should have worked it out right from the start...

The fact they were pulled by unicorns should have been a dead give away

Yep.

[Erpingham]

Nice one 

[Jim Webster]

Nice one 

There are times which call out for a 'like' button :-)

[Andreas Johansson]

Duncan Noble, author of Dawn of the Horse Warriors: Chariot and Cavalry Warfare, 3000-600BC , is said by the publisher to have built a replica for the BBC.

Yep - he devotes an appendix of the book to his experiments with said replica.

That appendix is the best part of the book, which is otherwise decidedly lackluster*. It's a while since I read it, but he finds that the thing was capable of significant speed and perfectly capable of manoeuvre, but also prone to tipping over.


* I'll just quote my review from LibraryThing:

My most disappointing read yet of 2016, and I'm typing this on the last of November.

Nominally, a popular history book about chariot and cavalry warfare, but despite the subtitle, cavalry receives little attention. That could have been lived with, particularly as I came to it primarily out of an interest in chariotry. What makes the book such a disappointment is that the bits I do know something about have so many errors that I can hardly trust it about subjects I'm not already knowledgeable about. Ancillary annoyances include a chaotic disposition, frequent ambiguity, intermittent illogic, and occasional contradictions. The maps are unusually useless even by the relaxed standards of niche publishing and typographical errors abound (which last is something of a specialty of the publisher, Pen & Sword).

Consistency of terminology isn't Noble's strong point either: a particularly bad example is "Central Asia", by which he sometimes seem to understand the steppe belt from the Ukraine to Manchuria, sometimes the area south of the steppe between the Caspian and China; and at one point explicitly takes to include Armenia (which is said to border China). At yet other times it's anyone's guess what he means.

The perhaps best part of the book - recalling that "best" is a relative term - is the appendix about Noble's own experiments with a replica of a Sumerian battle-cart. It's considerably better written than the main text, and while I won't vouch for the accuracy one can reasonably hope he knows what he's talking about here.

[Jim Webster]

It's your review I remember. A good review is one that sticks in mind. I knew I'd read about somebody doing trials on one of these things 

[aligern]

The difficulty wth all such trials is that the ancient machines were generally arrived at by an iterative process. People would build say a chariot with a particular objective in mind, then use and improve it. When modern reconstructors build a machine from the past it is normally constructed, tried, worked on and then fixed perhaps once more. So the reconstruction might tend to turn iver when manoeuvering at speed, but maybe the originals were one directional weapons, point and run, maybe they had a fix for  the problem( perhaps moving to the back, tilting the cab abd turning on two wheels).

[Andreas Johansson]

The difficulty wth all such trials is that the ancient machines were generally arrived at by an iterative process. People would build say a chariot with a particular objective in mind, then use and improve it. When modern reconstructors build a machine from the past it is normally constructed, tried, worked on and then fixed perhaps once more. So the reconstruction might tend to turn iver when manoeuvering at speed, but maybe the originals were one directional weapons, point and run, maybe they had a fix for  the problem( perhaps moving to the back, tilting the cab abd turning on two wheels).

I don't think we're licensed to assume there was a need for a fix. As I said, Noble found it was perfectly capable of manoeuvre. Doing so might have been dangerous, but doing dangerous things is part of the job description of a soldier.

I do think we're licensed to assume that they were not one-directional weapons. The idea is intrinsically unlikely and nobody has yet suggested any flaw in the reconstruction that would cast doubt on Noble's conclusion in that regard.

[aligern]

Doing dangerous things is part of a soldier's  job def.? Well I am not so sure, if you are putting princes in the cab I'd suggest that you would work a bit on making it rather less likely that members of the royal family are tipped out in front of an advancing enemy. Of course we are not licensed to assume that the length/ width ratio is as depicted in the illustration, ir even that the crew are one behind the other.
Roy