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Did the Macedonian Phalanx practise othismos with its sarissas?

Started by Justin Swanton, March 08, 2019, 01:50:43 AM

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Justin Swanton

Quote from: PMBardunias on April 07, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 06, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on March 14, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
On the idea of targetting shields for spiking and pushing, Paul has a point that the pelta would be very hard to hold vertical at right angles to the file direction - sloping in some direction seems more intuitive.  From previous discussions I know we don't know how the shield was held, except it wasn't like an aspis and it had a handle (sometimes mistranslated as strap).  Justin, do you have one of your graphics that show how it is held in your reconstruction?

I finally made a working replica of the shallower shield using layers of cardboard, making the shield strap out of plastic cord and the telamon from part of an old belt. After experimenting with the attachments points for the strap on the shield I got it to work: one can keep the shield at one's side with the telamon around the upper arm and the elbow raised (the shield naturally sits at 90 degrees to the facing of the body, meaning that doubling from intermediate order to at 48cm wide close order becomes possible - the shield doesn't get in the way).

To bring the shield around to the front one wold have to ground the sarissa, continuing to hold it with one's left arm, and use the right arm to pull the shield around whilst lowering the left elbow. It's quickly done. The telamon is now around the elbow and the shield faces forwards. Resuming one's right hand grip on the sarissa, one simply raises it and tips it forwards so it is presented over the edge of the shield to the right (pole vaulter grip). The left elbow rests on the telamon and the shield strap carries the weight of the arm and shield. The right arm, close to the chest, holds the sarissa in a relaxed way - the arm bones are actually carrying the weight. I could maintain this pose for ages.

The shield  is very firmly braced on a 5-point position - lower edge  resting against the hip, upper right edge braced by left arm, centre held by left elbow, and two points to the left and right of the telamon held by the strap. The shield is very rigid. One can advance like this in a 3/4 pose, raise the shield to block enemy thrusts at the face, and make one's own sarissa thrusts up to 2 feet forwards or so.

Forming up into a 48cm close order is no problem as the shield straps are fastened fairly close to the centre of the shield, allowing neighbouring shields to overlap without knocking against them.

I'll post some photos shortly.

I have shown you video of this done with the aspis, haven't I?

Don't think so. Could you point me to it?

PMBardunias

Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 07, 2019, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: PMBardunias on April 07, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 06, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on March 14, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
On the idea of targetting shields for spiking and pushing, Paul has a point that the pelta would be very hard to hold vertical at right angles to the file direction - sloping in some direction seems more intuitive.  From previous discussions I know we don't know how the shield was held, except it wasn't like an aspis and it had a handle (sometimes mistranslated as strap).  Justin, do you have one of your graphics that show how it is held in your reconstruction?

I finally made a working replica of the shallower shield using layers of cardboard, making the shield strap out of plastic cord and the telamon from part of an old belt. After experimenting with the attachments points for the strap on the shield I got it to work: one can keep the shield at one's side with the telamon around the upper arm and the elbow raised (the shield naturally sits at 90 degrees to the facing of the body, meaning that doubling from intermediate order to at 48cm wide close order becomes possible - the shield doesn't get in the way).

To bring the shield around to the front one wold have to ground the sarissa, continuing to hold it with one's left arm, and use the right arm to pull the shield around whilst lowering the left elbow. It's quickly done. The telamon is now around the elbow and the shield faces forwards. Resuming one's right hand grip on the sarissa, one simply raises it and tips it forwards so it is presented over the edge of the shield to the right (pole vaulter grip). The left elbow rests on the telamon and the shield strap carries the weight of the arm and shield. The right arm, close to the chest, holds the sarissa in a relaxed way - the arm bones are actually carrying the weight. I could maintain this pose for ages.

The shield  is very firmly braced on a 5-point position - lower edge  resting against the hip, upper right edge braced by left arm, centre held by left elbow, and two points to the left and right of the telamon held by the strap. The shield is very rigid. One can advance like this in a 3/4 pose, raise the shield to block enemy thrusts at the face, and make one's own sarissa thrusts up to 2 feet forwards or so.

Forming up into a 48cm close order is no problem as the shield straps are fastened fairly close to the centre of the shield, allowing neighbouring shields to overlap without knocking against them.

I'll post some photos shortly.

I have shown you video of this done with the aspis, haven't I?

Don't think so. Could you point me to it?

I cannot share it widely, it is not my video, but suffice to say that an authentic porpax can be word just above the elbow on an aspis, and you can use two hands freely. Images of the porpax like this exist on vases.

Justin Swanton

Quote from: PMBardunias on April 08, 2019, 09:10:04 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 07, 2019, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: PMBardunias on April 07, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 06, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on March 14, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
On the idea of targetting shields for spiking and pushing, Paul has a point that the pelta would be very hard to hold vertical at right angles to the file direction - sloping in some direction seems more intuitive.  From previous discussions I know we don't know how the shield was held, except it wasn't like an aspis and it had a handle (sometimes mistranslated as strap).  Justin, do you have one of your graphics that show how it is held in your reconstruction?

I finally made a working replica of the shallower shield using layers of cardboard, making the shield strap out of plastic cord and the telamon from part of an old belt. After experimenting with the attachments points for the strap on the shield I got it to work: one can keep the shield at one's side with the telamon around the upper arm and the elbow raised (the shield naturally sits at 90 degrees to the facing of the body, meaning that doubling from intermediate order to at 48cm wide close order becomes possible - the shield doesn't get in the way).

To bring the shield around to the front one wold have to ground the sarissa, continuing to hold it with one's left arm, and use the right arm to pull the shield around whilst lowering the left elbow. It's quickly done. The telamon is now around the elbow and the shield faces forwards. Resuming one's right hand grip on the sarissa, one simply raises it and tips it forwards so it is presented over the edge of the shield to the right (pole vaulter grip). The left elbow rests on the telamon and the shield strap carries the weight of the arm and shield. The right arm, close to the chest, holds the sarissa in a relaxed way - the arm bones are actually carrying the weight. I could maintain this pose for ages.

The shield  is very firmly braced on a 5-point position - lower edge  resting against the hip, upper right edge braced by left arm, centre held by left elbow, and two points to the left and right of the telamon held by the strap. The shield is very rigid. One can advance like this in a 3/4 pose, raise the shield to block enemy thrusts at the face, and make one's own sarissa thrusts up to 2 feet forwards or so.

Forming up into a 48cm close order is no problem as the shield straps are fastened fairly close to the centre of the shield, allowing neighbouring shields to overlap without knocking against them.

I'll post some photos shortly.

I have shown you video of this done with the aspis, haven't I?

Don't think so. Could you point me to it?

I cannot share it widely, it is not my video, but suffice to say that an authentic porpax can be word just above the elbow on an aspis, and you can use two hands freely. Images of the porpax like this exist on vases.

On the subject of using an aspis with two hands free, Cleomenes taught his Spartans to use the ochane rather than the porpax in the Macedonian fashion. How would you get your hand past the edge of the shield in that case? Move the ochanon/porpax nearer the side of the shield?

Justin Swanton

Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 06, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on March 14, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
On the idea of targetting shields for spiking and pushing, Paul has a point that the pelta would be very hard to hold vertical at right angles to the file direction - sloping in some direction seems more intuitive.  From previous discussions I know we don't know how the shield was held, except it wasn't like an aspis and it had a handle (sometimes mistranslated as strap).  Justin, do you have one of your graphics that show how it is held in your reconstruction?

I finally made a working replica of the shallower shield using layers of cardboard, making the shield strap out of plastic cord and the telamon from part of an old belt. After experimenting with the attachments points for the strap on the shield I got it to work: one can keep the shield at one's side with the telamon around the upper arm and the elbow raised (the shield naturally sits at 90 degrees to the facing of the body, meaning that doubling from intermediate order to at 48cm wide close order becomes possible - the shield doesn't get in the way).

To bring the shield around to the front one wold have to ground the sarissa, continuing to hold it with one's left arm, and use the right arm to pull the shield around whilst lowering the left elbow. It's quickly done. The telamon is now around the elbow and the shield faces forwards. Resuming one's right hand grip on the sarissa, one simply raises it and tips it forwards so it is presented over the edge of the shield to the right (pole vaulter grip). The left elbow rests on the telamon and the shield strap carries the weight of the arm and shield. The right arm, close to the chest, holds the sarissa in a relaxed way - the arm bones are actually carrying the weight. I could maintain this pose for ages.

The shield  is very firmly braced on a 5-point position - lower edge  resting against the hip, upper right edge braced by left arm, centre held by left elbow, and two points to the left and right of the telamon held by the strap. The shield is very rigid. One can advance like this in a 3/4 pose, raise the shield to block enemy thrusts at the face, and make one's own sarissa thrusts up to 2 feet forwards or so.

Forming up into a 48cm close order is no problem as the shield straps are fastened fairly close to the centre of the shield, allowing neighbouring shields to overlap without knocking against them.

I'll post some photos shortly.

Edit: by 'telamon' in the description I meant 'ochane/ochanon'. Photos hopefully this evening.

PMBardunias

Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 09, 2019, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: PMBardunias on April 08, 2019, 09:10:04 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 07, 2019, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: PMBardunias on April 07, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 06, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on March 14, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
On the idea of targetting shields for spiking and pushing, Paul has a point that the pelta would be very hard to hold vertical at right angles to the file direction - sloping in some direction seems more intuitive.  From previous discussions I know we don't know how the shield was held, except it wasn't like an aspis and it had a handle (sometimes mistranslated as strap).  Justin, do you have one of your graphics that show how it is held in your reconstruction?

I finally made a working replica of the shallower shield using layers of cardboard, making the shield strap out of plastic cord and the telamon from part of an old belt. After experimenting with the attachments points for the strap on the shield I got it to work: one can keep the shield at one's side with the telamon around the upper arm and the elbow raised (the shield naturally sits at 90 degrees to the facing of the body, meaning that doubling from intermediate order to at 48cm wide close order becomes possible - the shield doesn't get in the way).

To bring the shield around to the front one wold have to ground the sarissa, continuing to hold it with one's left arm, and use the right arm to pull the shield around whilst lowering the left elbow. It's quickly done. The telamon is now around the elbow and the shield faces forwards. Resuming one's right hand grip on the sarissa, one simply raises it and tips it forwards so it is presented over the edge of the shield to the right (pole vaulter grip). The left elbow rests on the telamon and the shield strap carries the weight of the arm and shield. The right arm, close to the chest, holds the sarissa in a relaxed way - the arm bones are actually carrying the weight. I could maintain this pose for ages.

The shield  is very firmly braced on a 5-point position - lower edge  resting against the hip, upper right edge braced by left arm, centre held by left elbow, and two points to the left and right of the telamon held by the strap. The shield is very rigid. One can advance like this in a 3/4 pose, raise the shield to block enemy thrusts at the face, and make one's own sarissa thrusts up to 2 feet forwards or so.

Forming up into a 48cm close order is no problem as the shield straps are fastened fairly close to the centre of the shield, allowing neighbouring shields to overlap without knocking against them.

I'll post some photos shortly.

I have shown you video of this done with the aspis, haven't I?

Don't think so. Could you point me to it?

I cannot share it widely, it is not my video, but suffice to say that an authentic porpax can be word just above the elbow on an aspis, and you can use two hands freely. Images of the porpax like this exist on vases.

On the subject of using an aspis with two hands free, Cleomenes taught his Spartans to use the ochane rather than the porpax in the Macedonian fashion. How would you get your hand past the edge of the shield in that case? Move the ochanon/porpax nearer the side of the shield?

The problem in using a spear in the left hand is not getting past the rim, it is getting the hand out of the bowl of the shield. You can do this and hols the spear easily with the biceps in the porpax. You just cannot stand with the shield perpendicular to the enemy, but as you know I do not believe they did anyway.

Justin Swanton

Quote from: PMBardunias on April 09, 2019, 06:10:26 PM
The problem in using a spear in the left hand is not getting past the rim, it is getting the hand out of the bowl of the shield. You can do this and hols the spear easily with the biceps in the porpax. You just cannot stand with the shield perpendicular to the enemy, but as you know I do not believe they did anyway.

You mean shield facing enemy, i.e. protecting your torso? If you have the ochanon/porpax round your upper arm the shield is sideways to your body which is then exposed to the enemy.

Justin Swanton

#111
Ok here we go. I would really have preferred a volunteer to pose for this but nobody was available (the photographer was the missus and, no.)

First photo shows the shield with the improvised ochanon and telamon. The shield is 64cm wide and unfortunately not nearly deep enough - only 5 cm instead of the minimum 10 cm. I'll make a deeper version next time.

Photos 2 and 3 show the shield with the ochanon around the upper arm. The shield naturally faces to the side of the body. Doubling files to close order by rear half-files advancing up alongside front half-files is practicable as the shield does not get in the way.

Photos 4 and 5: I ground the pike and, continuing to hold it with my left hand, use my right to pull the shield around to the front whilst lowering my left elbow. With a bit of practice I could keep the pike fairly immobile during the process.

Photos 5 and 6: the shield is now in front, braced against my left wrist, elbow, hip and the telamon now pulled taut. I can rest my left elbow on the ochanon and let the telamon carry the weight of the shield and arm. My right  hand holds the pikeshaft about two feet back from the left hand and, being close to the body, my right arm does not suffer muscle fatigue. The shield is very rigid and I can easily advance in this position, moving the shield forwards clear of my hip if necessary.


Mark G

Curious about your ability to thrust with the over arm shield raised position.

Simply walking forward seems a not very effective military tactic in a hand held weapon era

Justin Swanton

Quote from: Mark G on April 10, 2019, 06:09:11 PM
Curious about your ability to thrust with the over arm shield raised position.

Simply walking forward seems a not very effective military tactic in a hand held weapon era

Thrusting the sarissa is no problem - I loosen my left hand grip and shove the shaft forward with right arm. One gets some nice 2-ft long jabs that way.  What I can't do though is move the left arm much except up and down, so this is a one-arm strike, as with a dory.

Patrick Waterson

Interesting; it looks as if it would not be difficult to advance files on a 1-cubit individual frontage; the shields would overlap slightly, but that is all to the good and might explain why period sources refer to pike phalanxes being in synaspismos.

Quote from: Mark G on April 10, 2019, 06:09:11 PM
Simply walking forward seems a not very effective military tactic in a hand held weapon era

But simply walking forward in step with a bristling array of long, sharp-pointed shafts levelled at the foe can be quite effective, especially if the enemy does the hard work by trying to advance against you.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

Erpingham

QuoteBut simply walking forward in step with a bristling array of long, sharp-pointed shafts levelled at the foe can be quite effective, especially if the enemy does the hard work by trying to advance against you.

This is certainly possible but so far we seem to be rather short of information on how they fought, as opposed to how they drew up (and we debate that).

Patrick Waterson

Quote from: Erpingham on April 11, 2019, 09:26:55 AM
This is certainly possible but so far we seem to be rather short of information on how they fought, as opposed to how they drew up (and we debate that).

Quite so; just making the point that rows of sharp points properly presented are effective as of and in themselves. Not suggesting at all that this was the entire limit of the phalanx's repertoire. :)
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

RichT

Nice shield - can you give any details how you made it? I guess lathed?

Don't worry about the 10cm depth, that figure is entirely arbitrary anyway.

Have you tried using a wrist cord (like Matthew does) so that you don't have to manually pull the shield round in front of you? Of course doing so might match Plut. Aem. 19.1 "And when he saw that the rest of the Macedonian troops also were drawing their targets from their shoulders round in front of them" which may be your intention. Plus you want the shield parallel to line of advance for doubling purposes?

What are you aiming to demonstrate with this reconstruction? I know you are keen on the high hold, and clearly it's possible, but wouldn't the difficulties that concern you about one cubit synspismos with the sarissa at 7 o'clock apply just as much with it at 11 o'clock? I understand your concern is the sarissas fitting between the shields - it's a shame you can't get two or three similarly equipped people together. What purpose does the telamon serve? Also that last shot shows you'd need to put a lot of faith in your pteruges, since you are shall we say highly vulnerable to someone holding their sarissa low (but maybe you imagine only second and subsequent ranks doing this).

Justin Swanton

#118
Quote from: RichT on April 11, 2019, 11:32:51 AM
Nice shield - can you give any details how you made it? I guess lathed?

No, just a lot of layers of corrugated cardboard cut into discs and glued together. I'm no carpenter.  :)

Quote from: RichT on April 11, 2019, 11:32:51 AMHave you tried using a wrist cord (like Matthew does) so that you don't have to manually pull the shield round in front of you? Of course doing so might match Plut. Aem. 19.1 "And when he saw that the rest of the Macedonian troops also were drawing their targets from their shoulders round in front of them" which may be your intention. Plus you want the shield parallel to line of advance for doubling purposes?

Trouble is that when the ochanon is around your upper arm your wrist would project well beyond the edge of the shield, and with wrist in wristband you couldn't hold a sarissa and keep the shield at your side anyway. But a wrist cord for when the shield is in front of the body is a good idea. I must try it. And yes, I did have Plutarch in mind.  This seems to replicate nicely what he was talking about - phalanx advances in intermediate order with shields at the side. Once near the Romans it stops, doubles to close order, shields now overlapping in front, and slowly inches forwards over the last stretch of ground to contact the legions.

Quote from: RichT on April 11, 2019, 11:32:51 AMWhat are you aiming to demonstrate with this reconstruction? I know you are keen on the high hold, and clearly it's possible, but wouldn't the difficulties that concern you about one cubit synspismos with the sarissa at 7 o'clock apply just as much with it at 11 o'clock? I understand your concern is the sarissas fitting between the shields - it's a shame you can't get two or three similarly equipped people together.

That's the problem. Ideally I need about a hundred, deployed in a 10x10 block which should show up all the hidden problems. Why I'm trying to establish is the possibility of doubling files to close order without the shield getting in the way and the possibility of presenting sarissas with shields facing front and overlapping in close order. It seems to be theoretically possible. I've been looking at the gradients at Sellasia, Chaeronea (Philip's right flank) and Cynoscephalae and IMHO only an overarm presentation of sarissas, angled somewhat upwards for the front ranks, would allow a phalanx to advance up a slope any steeper than a few degrees. Trying to cross a river (Granicus, Issus) would be stopped by the far riverbank if the phalanx was in close order and the pikes were presented beneath the shields. Matthew recognises this problem and rightly discounts the 1-cubit close order as impossible for a pike phalanx with pikes below the shields.

Quote from: RichT on April 11, 2019, 11:32:51 AMWhat purpose does the telamon serve?

When presenting the pike overarm both arms have to be supported in some way or muscle fatigue sets in - something Matthew pointed out. The right arm, held close to the torso, is supported by its own bone structure. The left arm rests on the ochanon and its weight along with the shield is borne by the telamon. The hold then isn't fatiguing at all. The telamon also braces the shield laterally - it can't swing sideways.

Quote from: RichT on April 11, 2019, 11:32:51 AMAlso that last shot shows you'd need to put a lot of faith in your pteruges, since you are shall we say highly vulnerable to someone holding their sarissa low (but maybe you imagine only second and subsequent ranks doing this).

I noticed that. A 64cm wide shield isn't large enough to cover your neck and, ehrm, nether regions. You have to choose. I could lengthen the telamon and hold the shield lower but then my neck is exposed. I'm feeling my way with this but I suspect Hellenistic pikemen didn't try to target exposed areas of their opponent (they might miss) but aimed at their shields instead in order to shove them back and disrupt their formation. I probably need a lower hold so the shield covers the vitals as its default position but I am free to raise it if necessary to protect my neck. Let me try it.

Another idea of course is that the front rank presented their pikes underarm (much stabler against a cavalry charge) with the shields held lower. The phalanx can advance up a slope with the front rank presenting pikes underarm - they can easily angle the pikeshafts upwards without knocking them against overlapping shields in front.

Justin Swanton

#119
I experimented lengthening the telamon and then trying the shield with the overarm and underarm grip. The results were interesting. With the overarm grip I can get the shield down to below my chin but not lower, and the nether regions are still somewhat exposed (though not so much with a 3/4 stance). It is easy to raise the shield to protect the head.

Using exactly the same configuration of telamon and ochanon an underarm grip works fine, with the left forearm passing below the telamon on the right rather than above it as for the overarm grip. With the underarm grip the shield position changes substantially: the top edge of the shield rests against the shoulder whilst the bottom edge projects well forwards, a foot or more away from the body, supplying good protection for the hips. It is however impossible to raise the shield with this hold though it is possible to increase the angle at which the lower edge projects forward simply by extending the left arm. This looks a lot like the angled shields of the standing phalangites on the pergamon plaque.

So ideally a combination of grips would work: the front rank man uses an underarm grip and moves his head to dodge enemy strikes to his face (or pikes of all ranks are used to parry such strikes). The rear ranks adopt an overarm grip, which protects them from missiles and enables them to present pikes over the shoulders of the forward ranks. All ranks are able to angle their pikes upwards when climbing a slope or riverbank, which makes Antigonus' phalanx advance up Olympus and Euas (23 degree slope in the latter case) feasible.