Perth Pictish monolith sheds new light on warriors' history

[Imperial Dave]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-51530923

interesting that several depictions of Pictish warriors have an apparent 'apple' butt on the spears....is this artistic licence or an actual physical attribute of spears used?

[Jim Webster]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-51530923

interesting that several depictions of Pictish warriors have an apparent 'apple' butt on the spears....is this artistic licence or an actual physical attribute of spears used?

Interesting, hopefully there's more to come

[Erpingham]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-51530923

interesting that several depictions of Pictish warriors have an apparent 'apple' butt on the spears....is this artistic licence or an actual physical attribute of spears used?

Interesting, hopefully there's more to come

Apparently, something is already published.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/warrior-ideologies-in-firstmillennium-ad-europe-new-light-on-monumental-warrior-stelae-from-scotland/858D1BAD86C69B0A3490ECE55A8721DD

[Duncan Head]

interesting that several depictions of Pictish warriors have an apparent 'apple' butt on the spears....is this artistic licence or an actual physical attribute of spears used?

There are two principal races of the Britons, the Caledonians and the Maeatae, and the names of the others have been merged in these two. The Maeatae live next to the cross-wall which cuts the island in half, and the Caledonians are beyond them. Both tribes inhabit wild and waterless mountains and desolate and swampy plains, and possess neither walls, cities, nor tilled fields, but live on their flocks, wild game, and certain fruits; 2 for they do not touch the fish which are there found in immense and inexhaustible quantities. They dwell in tents, naked and unshod, possess their women in common, and in common rear all the offspring. Their form of rule is democratic for the most part, and they are very fond of plundering; consequently they choose their boldest men as rulers. 3 They go into battle in chariots, and have small, swift horses; there are also foot-soldiers, very swift in running and very firm in standing their ground. For arms they have a shield  and a short spear, with a bronze apple attached to the end of the spear-shaft, so that when it is shaken it may clash and terrify the enemy; and they also have daggers. 4 They can endure hunger and cold and any kind of hardship; for they plunge into the swamps and exist there for many days with only their heads above water, and in the forests they support themselves upon bark and roots, and for all emergencies they prepare a certain kind of food, the eating of a small portion of which, the size of a bean, prevents them from feeling either hunger or thirst.

It's obvious proof that they were of Persian descent

Edit: I see the article Jim links to already cites Dio.

[Imperial Dave]

I must have been living under a rock as I had never heard of the apple butts for spears before now.... tsk tsk on me!

[Anton]

Did the "apple butts" used to be described as door knobs?  I seem to remember a Slingshot article on door knob spear butts with a map where they had been found.  Anyone else recall it?

[aligern]

Arguably the figure with tge knobbes spear marched in front of the pipers twirling , throwing and catching the object?

The figures ( particularly the shielded one in the cited article (collessie?) are interesting to compare with the Roman tombstones showing cavalry crushing a naked barbarian with an oblong shield.
Roy

[Duncan Head]

The figures ( particularly the shielded one in the cited article (collessie?) are interesting to compare with the Roman tombstones showing cavalry crushing a naked barbarian with an oblong shield.

Wasn't the Collessie stone featured in Slingshot a few years ago, in a David Karunanithy article on the Caledonians?

There is also a figure of a horned god with the same type of small rectangular bossed shield and a spear with what looks like a butt ornament from Maryport in Cumbria - I found him in Anne Ross' Pagan Celtic Britain, but he is also here. This is further south than either the Bridgeness slab that Roy mentions or the (rather later) Pictish carvings.   

[Erpingham]

There is also the Summerton distance slab from the Antonine Wall.  The rectangular shields are less obvious here but they are present on both sides of the inscription.

In is an interesting situation when you get both Roman images of "barbarians" and images of "barbarians" by themselves.  The Roman versions are grovelling and defeated, the Picts noble, perhaps divine.

In terms of what we are looking at, there is enough between these that our our early Pict shield shouldn't be the usual square with horns but something more rectangular body shield in type?

[Duncan Head]

In terms of what we are looking at, there is enough between these that our our early Pict shield shouldn't be the usual square with horns but something more rectangular body shield in type?

My impression is that the Collessie, Bridgeness and so on shields are a a bit on the small side to be thought of as "body shields". But the round bosses suggest that they are of solid construction, wooden with a metal boss - though we can't be sure, they could be all-leather - whereas you don't see the boss on things like the Eassie Stone warrior or the three chieftains on the Birsay stone.

Tacitus describes the Caledones at Mons Graupius as having "short targets", brevibus caetris, suggesting small shields were in use in Scotland well before we hear of the name Picts or before any of these stones were carved. From "caetra" we'd normally expect a round shield, but choosing "short" rather than "small" might suggest that he was talking about short rectangular shields.

[Imperial Dave]

What about the Apple butted spear? Is this ceremonial or for fighting with?

[Duncan Head]

I don't see why it shouldn't be for fighting with; Dio Cassius doesn't suggest that it is anything other than an ordinary everyday weapon - "so that when it is shaken it may clash and terrify the enemy" would be meaningless if it were not carried on the battlefield.

[Erpingham]

What about the Apple butted spear? Is this ceremonial or for fighting with?

A quick google suggests that bronze "door knob" spear butts are a common find in Ireland and Scotland (the latter also has moulds for casting them, indicating local production).  They are also found in England in Romano-British contexts.  Their common survival points to widespread use, which may point to the routine rather than ceremonial, though isn't certain (there could have been a lot of ceremonies).

[Imperial Dave]

ok, so the next question is.....why? Are they ornamental or used as a counterweight presumably for thrusting with?

[Duncan Head]

ok, so the next question is.....why? Are they ornamental or used as a counterweight presumably for thrusting with?

"so that when it is shaken it may clash and terrify the enemy".

They are hollow, apparently, though the only examples I can immediately find are from England; so could have contained something that rattled, though perhaps they were just drummed on the shield - "clash" might suggest that.

Hollow suggests they would be less useful as a counterweight, and according again to Dio the spears are short, so might be in less need of counterweighting. And you couldn't use them to stick the shaft in the ground, or as a secondary weapon if the shaft breaks - better as an improvised mace if they were solid, I'd have thought. Will still, I suppose, help prevent the shaft splintering at the end.