Perth Pictish monolith sheds new light on warriors' history

[Imperial Dave]

much appreciated for the insights Duncan and makes sense

[Anton]

Some were found in Ireland with remains of the shaft.  The wood was dated 3rd-5th century which is interesting.  I'll post a link if I can find it.

[Imperial Dave]

thanks Stephen, look forward to that

[Anton]

Two articles below Dave and anyone else interested.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7-I6DgAAQBAJ&pg=PT581&lpg=PT581&dq=door+knob+spear+butts&source=bl&ots=wR6XIVTdot&sig=ACfU3U0_6f2UKiqqWytB2qtjRyAlq6SVsA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2orv_v-3nAhUCY8AKHRp8DUkQ6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=door%20knob%20spear%20butts&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wcp-AgAAQBAJ&pg=PT271&lpg=PT271&dq=door+knob+spear+butts&source=bl&ots=NQXBwnCO_-&sig=ACfU3U3Fi7UF0zbjgf-xvGa9JaOcczUDcg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2orv_v-3nAhUCY8AKHRp8DUkQ6AEwAnoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=door%20knob%20spear%20butts&f=false

[Imperial Dave]

thanks Stephen, very much obliged for the links

[Anton]

I had a quick google for where door knob spear butts had been found in England without much luck.  I was hoping for a map of finds.  However one turned up in Norfolk in a Late Roman /early medieval context.

[Erpingham]

There are a few on Portable Antiquities database here.  After main record, see three similar records at bottom.

[Anton]

Thanks Anthony.

The PAS records door knob spear butt finds in Hampshire, Gloucestershire, Warwickshire, Lincolnshire, Derbyshire, York, East Riding of Yorkshire, Cumbria, East Sussex, North Yorkshire, Telford and Wrekin, Lancashire, Oxfordshire, Staffordshire, Suffolk, and Norfolk county council have another one.  That's a pretty wide spread of finds below the Wall.

[Imperial Dave]

so the question is....should we be fielding more apple-butted spear(men) in our British armies and in what date range....?

[Anton]

Maybe, I'm wondering about a link to the large scale incursion of Picts and Scots in the 360s.  The people who used the door knob spear butts seem to have been the Picts and Scots. Molds for the butts have been found in Scotland.  The dating for all seems to be Late Roman/early medieval.  Then we have the partial spear shaft with DKB from Ireland dated from the 3rd to 5th century.

[Erpingham]

The dating for all seems to be Late Roman/early medieval.

Though there is a degree of circularity - the PAS finds aren't from dated contexts so tend to be labelled Late Roman/Medieval because that is how we conventionally date door-knob spear butts.  That said, there are some which are from secure archaeological contexts which do relate to this period.

[Anton]

True enough on both counts.

[Imperial Dave]

so, one hypothesis could be that presence of apple butted spears could be evidence to support the incursions of the 4th Century......

[Erpingham]

so, one hypothesis could be that presence of apple butted spears could be evidence to support the incursions of the 4th Century......

Another would be these were more widespread than we initially thought. 

[Imperial Dave]

agreed and there are several possible scenarios that the evidence so far permits us to examine