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Pictish diet - not keen on fish

Started by Duncan Head, May 12, 2020, 09:12:16 PM

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Duncan Head

Duncan Head

Mark G


Imperial Dave

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Jim Webster


Imperial Dave

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Imperial Dave

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Erpingham

Quoteits actually very nice.....!

All the way to the diabetic clinic  :(

Anyway, I think the Picts mainly avoided Mars Bars because they had not yet crossed the Atlantic.  Why they didn't eat much fish is another matter.  It's not exactly rare around Scotland, which is famous for its sea food these days.

Imperial Dave

Some cultural reason....sacred animals?
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Mick Hession

Far too perilous: the Picts lived at a time when the Saint:water monster ratio was dangerously low.

"at another time, when the blessed man (St Columba) was for a lumber of days in the province of the Picts, he had to cross the river Nes [Ness]. When lie reached its bank, he saw a poor fellow being buried by other inhabitants; and the buriers said that, while swimming not long before, he had been seized and most savagely bitten by a water beast. Some men, going to his rescue in a wooden boat, though too late, had put out hooks and caught hold of his wretched corpse. When the blessed man heard this, he ordered notwithstanding that one of his companions should swim out and bring back to him, by sailing, a boat that stood on the opposite bank. Hearing this order of the holy and memorable man, Lugne mocu‑Min obeyed without delay, and putting off his clothes, excepting his tunic, plunged into the water. But the monster, whose appetite had earlier been not so much sated as whetted for prey, lurked in the depth of the river. Feeling the water above disturbed by Lugne's swimming, it suddenly swam up to the surface, and with gaping mouth and with great roaring rushed towards the man swimming in the middle of the stream. While all that were there, barbarians and even the brothers, were struck down with extreme terror, the blessed man, who was watching, raised his holy hand and drew the saving sign of the cross in the empty air; and then, invoking the name of God, he commanded the savage beast, and said: "You will go no further. Do not touch the man; turn back speedily". Then, hearing this command of the saint, the beast, as if pulled back with ropes, fled terrified in swift retreat; although it had before approached so close to Lugne as he swam that there was no more than the length of one short pole between man and beast.Then seeing that the beast had withdrawn and that their fellow- soldier Lugne had returned to them unharmed and safe, in the boat, the brothers with great amazement glorified God in the blessed man. And also the pagan barbarians who were there at the time, impelled by the magnitude of this miracle that they themselves had seen, magnified the God of the Christians." 

Cheers
Mick

Erpingham

Ok, so we have two working hypotheses.  The one in the article - that salmon were sacred - seems to lack evidence.  The Picts put bulls on symbol stones but seem to have eaten beef and dairy.  And even if salmon were sacred, what about other fish?  The water monster issue could have been significant but we have limited evidence of the monsters being widespread.  I suppose the appearance of the Pictish swimming beast on symbol stones may point to a wider distribution.

Imperial Dave

its seems odd that if fish as plentiful that more use of them in the diet isnt made...?
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Jim Webster

Quote from: Holly on May 14, 2020, 02:19:36 PM
its seems odd that if fish as plentiful that more use of them in the diet isnt made...?

I'm intrigued by the monastic evidence, when you might have expected fish to be served one day a week

Duncan Head

Quote from: Jim Webster on May 14, 2020, 06:13:20 PMI'm intrigued by the monastic evidence, when you might have expected fish to be served one day a week

The article does comment on this, on the possibility that early mediaeval fasting practices were different and that fish as a substitute for meat on fast days may only have become common later on. By this argument, early Pictish monks might simply have eaten vegetarian meals on fast days.
Duncan Head

Jim Webster

Quote from: Duncan Head on May 14, 2020, 06:43:32 PM
Quote from: Jim Webster on May 14, 2020, 06:13:20 PMI'm intrigued by the monastic evidence, when you might have expected fish to be served one day a week

The article does comment on this, on the possibility that early mediaeval fasting practices were different and that fish as a substitute for meat on fast days may only have become common later on. By this argument, early Pictish monks might simply have eaten vegetarian meals on fast days.

indeed they may actually have been eating more meat on non-fast days than for example Welsh monks were doing

Also I wonder if actually they were catching fish, preserving it and selling it?
Or at least sending it to some overlord whether secular or religious

Also no mention of shell fish or did I miss that?