Tigranes' Armenians?

[Trev]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of starting an ancient Armenian army, the classic Tigranes the Great one, but I'm struggling to find many clues as to what they looked like. 

Did any ancient Urartu culture still remain? I found some opinions saying that Armenia had been heavily influenced culturally by Archaemenid Persia. The proximity to the encroaching Scythian/Sarmatian/Parthian cultures in the north and East would presumably also have had an influence.  The Cappadocians on the western side seem to be similar trouser/tunic wearers from I what I understand.  Some sort of Iranian influenced trouser/tunic combination with Scythian, Persian or maybe Phrygian type caps perhaps?  Pontic armies are described as wearing colourful Median and Scythian coats with bright embellished armour, so maybe this would extend to the Armenians too.   

There doesn't seem to be any dedicated figure line for this period in 28mm and isn't even an Osprey, that I know of. What I could find in 15mm seemed very Persian/Parthian looking.  Is the short answer that we just don't know?  If it is, what do people think are the best proxies?

Anyone got any thoughts?

[Ian61]

I suspect you are already on the right lines. If he (Tigrane) used troops from across the quite large area he conquered then you have the possibly of quite a diverse army but I am sure some of the other chaps on the forum will give you more definitive advice. What scale and rules are you hoping to use them with?

[Mark G]

I fudged mine when I did.
Used xyston kapadocians for footmen, basically parthians for horsemen, and some generic hill tribe types for Black Sea iberians.

Keep us posted which choices you make

[dwkay57]

I have an Armenian army that is roughly from the period of Tigranes, but it is at 6mm so I get away with some heavy paint jobs and rough modelling (filing down bow cases) in places. There are some figure depictions in some of the WRG reference books (Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome, Macedonian and Punic Wars, Greek and Persian Wars) and some figures in Duncan's book on the Achaemenid Persians provided inspiration too.

I used a mix of figures from various ranges of the 6mm manufacturers to come up with my motley collection. There are some photos on my website. Most infantry are unarmoured and wearing tunic and trousers and carrying round shields. Parthian style light cavalry and a mix of various heavier cavalry were used.

[DBS]

You might find some useful thoughts in this thread on the Iberians and Albanians of the Caucasus during this period.

Albanian and Iberian thread

[Duncan Head]

The Armenians on 6th/5th-century Achaemenid monuments are wearing Median dress - tunic, trousers, cap - and to judge from Plutarch's Antony, this was still true a generation after Tigranes:

At the same time he (Antony) also produced his sons, Alexander arrayed in Median garb, which included a tiara and upright head-dress, Ptolemy in boots, short cloak, and broad-brimmed hat surmounted by a diadem. For the latter was the dress of the kings who followed Alexander, the former that of Medes and Armenians.

For Roman coins showing Armenian dress and equipment, see https://www.peopleofar.com/2012/07/11/armenian-images-in-roman-coins/

Symbolic Armenia on the Hadrianeum in Naples: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Armenia_Hadrianeum_MAN_Napoli_Inv79.jpg

[Trev]

Just catching up on this at lunchtime.  Wow!  Thanks for all the feedback.  That's great. 

My project will be in 28mm but is early doors as I have a couple of other armies in the middle of re-basing and filling out.  Ancients as a period has had a bit of a renaissance recently at our club, which I'm quite chuffed about.  Some newish members had been playing Art De la Guerre and so now others are piling on.  I make no claims to perfection of the rules but I've enjoyed the few games I have played so far and the army sizes are not too big.  I am just glad to get some ancient lead/plastic on the table to be honest. 

I'll have a better read through the links and post up some of my ideas when I have more time.  Thanks again for all the input and please add more if anyone has any additional thoughts.

[Trev]

Thanks again guys for the comments.  I've had a closer look now and dug out my copies of the books suggested that for some reason I hadn't thought to look at.  These two are probably the most useful.





I also found these images on the People of Ar Web site Duncan linked to.



Here is the link

So Persian/Median proxies are looking best.

I will probably use the various plastic kits to cut down costs and allow for a bit of kitbashing.  These Persian unarmoured spearmen and archers will probably serve for many of the infantry.

The Gripping Beast Dark Age Warriors or the Wargames Atlantic Goths are possibilities with suitable head swaps.  Maybe some of the Victrix Dark Age archers as well.  They are close to the Armenian javelinman in Armies and Enemies of Rome. Fig 94.




For the Cataphracts, these from Gripping Beast look pretty good.



For the horse archers I might be able to kitbash something from the Persians or perhaps better is to use the Scythians pack.



PS I found another source unit for the horse archers.  Metal not plastic but might be nice for variety.

[Ian61]

Wow! those metal horses look very good, where did you spot them? I have found some of my metal horses to have quite a static look - necessary as their legs can tend to get easily damaged (Two of my Numidian horses now have transparent poles from old flying bases holding them up underneath after they took a tumble!). I have quite a few the plastic Victrix horses but not these Scythians (they cropped up on the forum a little while ago re the pose shooting backwards), they do tend to be much more dynamic but can be a little bigger than other manufacturers. That said they should be fine for your Armenians but my British chariots should probably be being pulled by small shaggy ponies not the fine beasts that Victrix provide.

[Trev]

The metal horse archers are from 1st corps here.

I've got some of their figures and they can be a bit smaller than other ranges.  I might get a pack to see though.

There are some size comparison pictures of the various Scythian/Parthian cavalry miniatures here




The Victrix Scythians and Grippping Beast Cataphracts look to go well together.  Only the Warlord Parthians look a bit puny. 

A&A are another one I forgot about.  They have some horse archers in their Parthian/Sassanid range here

[dwkay57]

Don't forget that that they were a fair few allies in the Armenian army. I went back to the old WRG list (No.44 Army Lists Book 1 1981) as that tended to give more specific detail as opposed to the more generic categories in later sets.

As a result my Tigranes the lesser has a Gordyene sub-general called Zarbienus the Unfaithful.

[Trev]

I agree, for Tigranes you need a bit of a King-of-kings aesthetic for he had "subdued many nations."  Even if they were quite small ones and their loyalty seems unsure.



"Mardian mounted archers and Iberian lancers" are mentioned here. The Mardians are a Scythian people from the southern Caspian shore, from what I read here, but a group seems to have been settled in Armenia itself.  I thought Seleucid Mardians were foot archers but these are explicitly mounted, so I guess Scythian/Parthian cavalry models would suit, which is handy.  The Iberians, and Albanians, are extensively discussed in the thread David linked to above.  The ADLG list seems to lump them both together anyway as "Georgians or Albanians".

"Zarbienus, king of Gordyene" is one of "the princes who paid but a hollow obedience to the Armenian" here.  That swathe of light brown vassals on the map could cover a multitude of sins.  Arabs, Syrians, Arameans, Greeks, a wide variety of Iranians etc.

Just below the bit about the Mardians and Iberians, Plutarch talks of "Greeks whom he[Tigranes] removed in great numbers from Cilicia and from Cappadocia, and settled anew".  Maybe that's the Phalangites that appear in the lists but it's a bit of an assumption if it is. I seem to recall some evidence for Kommogene having some Phalangites too but we're into the dying days of that troop type.  I have another memory of Mithridates retraining Tigranes infantry as imitation legions.  A small number are allowed in the list.

[CarlL]

I would suspect Arsacid Parthian and Skythian cultures - beliefs, clothing styles, armour and styles of warfare - would have had big impact on army and court of Tigranes the Great, while individual towns and cities within his empire would reflect their origins in terms of military traditions: so there were many towns and cities of 'Arab', 'Jewish' and Greek settler / colonists from the time of Alexanders Successors as well as the many neighbouring cultures and kingdoms highlighted by the map 'Trev' has posted.
Books on the Roman-Persian Wars for dominance over Armenia may help identify the numbers and sources of troops that would have been 'on call' from within his empire.
CarlL

[dwkay57]

The old WRG list allows Tigranes to have:
Pontic trained imitation Italians - Reg C LMI jls shld 10 - 100
of which up to 72 can be upgraded to Reg C HI HTW shld
And:
Ex-Seleucid or ex-Greek phalangites Reg D MI pike shld 24 - 48

My 6mm Armenian army has small groups of these (but downgraded in terms of morale) as part of Tigranes' own command of Armenian troops. Half the army is made up of allies from (H)Iberia, Albania, Adiabene, and Gordyene, with the last two being classed as reluctant.

[Trev]

I did a bit of reading last night, mostly wiki, and this is my summary of what I found on the vassal kingdoms.

Kommagene - Hellenised Orontid Armenian/Iranian Elite, Hellenised Aramaic people with Iranian influence
Sophene - Orontid Armenian/Iranian Elite, Armenian with lots of heavily mixed influences but notably Greek
Osrhoene - Nabatean Arab Elite, heavily Aramaic with strong Parthian and some Greek influence
Gordyene - long association with Armenia, possible Kurds, skilled in siege-craft
Adiabene - Iranianised Syriac people with Arab, Aramean, Greek and Jewish influences
Atropatene - Iranian Kingdom

That's probably hopelessly simplified, if not outright wrong, but a start.