Rheged in Galloway

[Erpingham]

Looks interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-38679324

[Duncan Head]

This is connected with the launch of the book discussed in our earlier thread  http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=2218.msg25528 - I've got it on order.

[Imperial Dave]

I'll be interested in your thoughts on it Duncan at the appropriate time

[Anton]

Koch places Rheged in Cumbria with the heart land in the Eden Valley. Tim Clarkson who champions Rheged in Galloway discusses it briefly in a recent blog.  If memory serves  TC now thinks his is a minority view.

[Imperial Dave]

I am strangely ambivalent on this thorny issue Anton, and open to persuasion. However, I am more tending to the 'traditionalist' view (along with Koch) that it is South of the wall but that doesnt completely rule out Rheged sprawling over a wide area and possibly beyond the wall as well.

Probably the closest approximation to hand

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Northumbria.rise.600.700.jpg

I think it was Koch who postulated that Northern Britain (as a diocese) fractured in the twighlight of the Late Roman period into Deifr, Bryneich, Rheged, plus associated areas north of the wall with lots of in fighting between these areas before the Angles took over

[Anton]

Likewise, I would find a 'southern' Rheged more in keeping with what we know.  TC's 'northern' Rheged is perfectly feasible as the expansion of the Strathclyde kings shows but I suspect it was otherwise. That Rheged held territory beyond the Solway seems real enough.

There was some discussion of Corbridge as the civates centre of Bryneich but I lost track of it.

[Imperial Dave]

possibly a fracturing of a 'greater Rheged' into 2 areas - one below the (Hadrians) Wall and the other between the 2 walls?

[Anton]

May be so, I suppose it would ultimately go back to the northern Brigantian border wherever that was.

[Imperial Dave]

its not absolutely certain but it would make sense that territories would tend to lineate around the 2 walls

ie north of the Antonine wall - 'free' Britons/Picts/Caledones/Scotti etc
between the walls of Antonine and Hadrian - tribal  Britons either allied to Rome or hostile but certainly influenced by them and carrying through a militarised society into our period
below Hadrians Wall - our sub Roman Britons laced with laeti/foederati

[Imperial Dave]

https://www.archaeology.co.uk/articles/features/rheged-rediscovered-uncovering-a-lost-british-kingdom-in-galloway.htm

a shortened version of the article in CA 327

[Anton]

I enjoyed that Holly, thank you.  It occurs to me that setting up symbol stones seems to have been a declaration of presence and status.

As an aside the Wiseman article I was looking for is called: 

A British legion stationed near Orléans c. 530? Evidence for Brittonic military activity in late antique Gaul in Vita Sancti Dalmatii
and other sources 
Howard M. Wiseman
Centre for Quantum Dynamics,
Griffith University

I have a hard copy but cannot find it online.

[Imperial Dave]

I think dark mentions boundary stones rivers palaces as junctions between kingdoms of sub roman britain

[Patrick Waterson]

As an aside the Wiseman article I was looking for is called: 

A British legion stationed near Orléans c. 530? Evidence for Brittonic military activity in late antique Gaul in Vita Sancti Dalmatii
and other sources 
Howard M. Wiseman
Centre for Quantum Dynamics,
Griffith University

Ah, you mean this one?  I do not think it is online, but if you asked Prof Wiseman I am sure he could make a digital copy available.  His email address is on this page, under the Address section.

[Anton]

Thank you Patrick.

[Duncan Head]

It's online at http://www.ict.griffith.edu.au/wiseman/DECB/Wiseman-Dalmas-JAEMA.pdf