Early Italian Warfare

[Erpingham]

We might be able to prove this point through art - are there any early depictions of musical instruments in a military context?

Flutes, and later percussion, are the early form of cadence marching, and strongly indicate (if not even prove) formations

Yes.  Some of the processions have musicians.  One situla (I'll try and track down later but I'm dashing at the moment) has two guys in crested helmets playing what appear to be panpipes.  Given the helmets they must have a military connection.

[Erpingham]

The panpipers in helmets are on the Welzelach situla.  Context is very much a procession though.

Also, I found these great picks from Chiusi.  http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/etruskisch/Interesting

The Poggio Gaiella monument has a phalanxoid with diaulos player.  Note also the late image with a warrior carrying an oval shield.

Also, worth a skim through a google image search on Chiusi Tombs.  A lot of late ones, lots of Hellenistic influence.  Apparently, all Etruscan cavalry looked like Alexander - who knew?

[Patrick Waterson]

There is an interesting relief of three-horse chariots in the collection.

Also intriguing is the mix of shields in this 2nd century BC picture.

[andrew881runner]

I hoped in some comments of my video of phalanx battle...

[Mark G]

I've not had a chance to look at it, Andrew.
Busy week ahead, but i ill

[aligern]

Anthony, that Chiusi relief is really  great.  Might we conclude from it that:
The Etruscans have music and so advance in step or at least in rhythm.
They have shields that look like a Greek aspis, but is a bit smaller and has a different grip.
They are carrying spears parallel with the ground which look shorter than doru?

Roy

[Erpingham]

I have to admit, I think this phalanx-type body is involved in yet another Etruscan procession.  These often have musicians.  In this case, though, the position of the flautist does suggest he is within the hoplite body - they are usually shown separate.  I can't make out what the warriors are holding but they are carrying it at the trail.  As to the shorter spear, I am increasing sure that the shorter spear than the Greeks isn't just an artistic convenience.  If you do a google search for Etruscan stele, you will see yet another artistic funerary convention, again with a six foot or shorter spear.   While there, note this one from Bologna

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/442478732109775247/ - an oval scutum with central spina, if I'm not mistaken.

The cavalryman fighting a naked Celt is interesting too.

[Patrick Waterson]

The Chiusi procession is probably a good guide to what the well-dressed 600-551 BC warrior from Chiusi was wearing.  I would hesitate to draw conclusions from it about any other Etruscans.

If we keep this up, we might be able to arrive at tentative orders of battle for each major Etruscan city for each century (and maybe half-century).  Previous studies have tended to lump all Etruscans together as a single and perhaps unified military system, but I think our evidence is increasingly showing this not to be the case.  What do others think?

Perhaps also worth a look is this ship.  Yes, it is Etruscan, not Viking ... but note the 'sea service' shields.  (I suspect this is intended to depict Odysseus and the sirens.)

[Erpingham]

OK, here's another talking point :

http://www.antika.it/008981_oinochoe-di-tragliatella.html

A Trojan War theme (Etruscans loved Trojan War stories, on the evidence of their art).  A group of warriors with no helmet, overlapping argive shield and three javelins.  Ignore the two couples having sex and the cavalryman with monkey. Dated 630-600BC.

[Erpingham]

Perhaps also worth a look is this ship.  Yes, it is Etruscan, not Viking ... but note the 'sea service' shields.  (I suspect this is intended to depict Odysseus and the sirens.)

I think these are a genuine type - they appear a lot in various art.  The main distinguishing feature is the boss-like centre, often with radiating lines or petals as a pattern.  The central piece is sometimes painted red.  Size may vary - some with this concentric pattern are the size a a Greek hoplite aspis, others seem smaller like these.  They appear to be a later period feature, incidentally, from my limited survey.

[Mark G]

Andrew,
Your video comes up as private when i try to view it

[Duncan Head]

There is an interesting relief of three-horse chariots in the collection.

Trigae were used for racing; I know of no evidence for their combat use in Italy.

In the chariot races two very ancient customs continue to be observed by the Romans down to my time in the same manner as they were first instituted. The first relates to the chariots drawn by three horses, a custom now fallen into disuse among the Greeks, though it was an ancient institution of heroic times which Homer represents the Greeks as using in battle. For running beside two horses yoked together in the same manner as in the case of a two-horse chariot was a third horse attached by a trace; this trace-horse the ancients called parêoros or "outrunner," because he was "hitched beside" and not yoked to the others.

[Patrick Waterson]

Ignore the two couples having sex and the cavalryman with monkey.

As one does ... interesting to note the infantrymen's apparently hoplite-type shields all carrying the same animal device while the cavalry shields (similarly-sized?) have an avian motif.  Two spears seem to be the infantry norm, as one might expect in 630-600 BC, but it is noticeable that the cavalryman with a spear has just the one, and it is long enough to suggest a lance.

Perhaps also worth a look is this ship.  Yes, it is Etruscan, not Viking ... but note the 'sea service' shields.  (I suspect this is intended to depict Odysseus and the sirens.)

I think these are a genuine type - they appear a lot in various art.  The main distinguishing feature is the boss-like centre, often with radiating lines or petals as a pattern.  The central piece is sometimes painted red.  Size may vary - some with this concentric pattern are the size a a Greek hoplite aspis, others seem smaller like these.  They appear to be a later period feature, incidentally, from my limited survey.

Just trying to cast my mind back to Duncan's round-shield tomb engraving from 310 BC ...

[Duncan Head]

If we keep this up, we might be able to arrive at tentative orders of battle for each major Etruscan city for each century (and maybe half-century).  Previous studies have tended to lump all Etruscans together as a single and perhaps unified military system, but I think our evidence is increasingly showing this not to be the case.

There are some interesting pictures in this article on the Etruscans in the Po Valley. (The text may be interesting as well, but I haven't struggled with it yet.) Of course not all the illustrations are Etruscan, some of them are comparative.

[andrew881runner]

Andrew,
Your video comes up as private when i try to view it

try again now. Problem solved.