Starter book on Macedonian wars?

[Ade G]

I have managed to hook a couple of lads at the club into playing ancients. One wants Seleukids and the Alexandrian but wonder of wonders they want to do some reading!

Can anyone recommend a general history of Alex and the Successors with decent battle descriptions?

Thanks

[Duncan Head]

That's tricky, because at the level of "general history" you don't usually get much in the way of battle description!

Various biographical works on Alexander do tend to give more battle details, though, and I'd start with something like Bosworth's Conquest and Empire: The Reign of Alexander the Great or Heckel's The Conquests of Alexander the Great; and follow that with something like Errington's History of the Hellenistic World.

There are also some decent popular military-oriented works like Pietrykowski's Great Battles of the Hellenistic World or Roberts & Bennett Twilight of the Hellenistic World, which will have more battle-description but less background, and are a bit less academic.

And of course the 2016 revision of Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars is available...

[Ade G]

Thank you for those suggestions Duncan

[Tim]

That's tricky, because at the level of "general history" you don't usually get much in the way of battle description!

...

And of course the 2016 revision of Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars is available...

Which I can recommend without reservation as the place to go to first.

[RichT]

A good general history of the Successor period is Robin Waterfield's Dividing the Spoils: The War for Alexander the Great's Empire. Not much specifically on the battles, mind, but Pietrykowski's Great Battles.. can full that in (if used with extreme caution).

[Erpingham]

Wouldn't take much to convert this to beginners guide themed review for Slingshot

[Mark G]

Actually, a piece on the process of being converted would be interesting.

Can they be persuaded to write?

[Ade G]

Wouldn't take much to convert this to beginners guide themed review for Slingshot

Interesting thought. The young men who have asked are in their late 20's and bought up on GW. They have been attracted to ancients by seeing my collection, looking at the superb figures available and realising how much cheaper they are than the fantasy stuff they usually lust after. What they don't get is the history and research bit because they are used to a "codex" or similar.

They pick up rules much quicker than I ever have and have started beating me on a regular basis!

[Patrick Waterson]

Wouldn't take much to convert this to beginners guide themed review for Slingshot

Interesting thought. The young men who have asked are in their late 20's and bought up on GW. They have been attracted to ancients by seeing my collection, looking at the superb figures available and realising how much cheaper they are than the fantasy stuff they usually lust after. What they don't get is the history and research bit because they are used to a "codex" or similar.

They pick up rules much quicker than I ever have and have started beating me on a regular basis!

This could be one of the most important posts regarding potential future membership of the Society and general preservation of the ancient wargaming hobby we have yet had.

[RichT]

Interesting thought. The young men who have asked are in their late 20's and bought up on GW. They have been attracted to ancients by seeing my collection, looking at the superb figures available and realising how much cheaper they are than the fantasy stuff they usually lust after. What they don't get is the history and research bit because they are used to a "codex" or similar.

In that case what they probably need is not the sorts of books Duncan and I recommended (except AMPW which would be ideal) but more of a Wargamers' Guide To... sort of book. In my day I relied on Peter Connolly and on Warry's Warfare in the Ancient World. There should be scope for modern, more period-specific, more text heavy but still illustrated versions of these, covering army composition, dress and equipment, campaigns and battles, maybe rules and figures, and further reading.

A bit like Mersey's A Wargamer's Guide to the Early Roman Empire which IIRC was favourably reviewed recently. I see he's also done a A Wargamer's Guide to 1066 and the Norman Conquest. From Pen and Sword. Hmm, there's scope there for more of these, maybe P&S are working on it. I think (hope) there is great potential there.

[Erpingham]

What they don't get is the history and research bit because they are used to a "codex" or similar.

A tricky one.  The codex provides all the background you need plus all the facts.  They could try a set of rules which works on a "core + supplement" basis, which is conceptually similar, if they felt withdrawal symptoms.  I suspect, though, having an experienced opponent and learning the rules they use might be more appealling.

No-one so far has mentioned getting hold of some Osprey titles for the period of interest.  Plenty of colourful interpretations to guide modelling efforts and, if you are lucky, some concise discussions of organisation, weaponry, tactics.  Is this because the Ospreys in this period are particularly poor or misleading?

[Duncan Head]

No-one so far has mentioned getting hold of some Osprey titles for the period of interest.  Plenty of colourful interpretations to guide modelling efforts and, if you are lucky, some concise discussions of organisation, weaponry, tactics.  Is this because the Ospreys in this period are particularly poor or misleading?

No, they're mostly fairly good. But each only covers one aspect of the period, and the original enquiry was after a general overview.

If we're after wargamers' guides, then Phil Barker's Alexander the Great's Campaigns and Tony Bath's Hannibal's Campaigns may still be useful, if a bit dated.

[willb]

Lost Battles by Phil Sabin has descriptions of the most of the battles in the period they are interested in.

Since they are useed to using a codex for army lists, maybe the original army list books for Field of Glory that cover Alexander and the Successors might be useful.   They are Rixe of Rome and immortal Fire.  Used copies are available at reduced prices from on Ebay.  They are still available from Amazon.  The Amazon US store has Rise of Rome for about $6US (about 4 pounds) and as far as I know ships world wide.   

[Chuck the Grey]

All great suggestions. I second the recommendations for Peter Connolly's Greece and Rome at War and John Warry's Warfare in the Classical World both for the military information and the eye candy. Fortunately both are still available for a reasonable cost.

I was going to suggest Alexander the Great by Jeff Jonas, a supplement for the Warhammer Ancient Battles ruleset. A great resource for the period, but at $105 USD on Amazon I would give it a pass. My copy will go into the safe with my other riches.

[Ade G]

Wouldn't take much to convert this to beginners guide themed review for Slingshot

Interesting thought. The young men who have asked are in their late 20's and bought up on GW. They have been attracted to ancients by seeing my collection, looking at the superb figures available and realising how much cheaper they are than the fantasy stuff they usually lust after. What they don't get is the history and research bit because they are used to a "codex" or similar.

They pick up rules much quicker than I ever have and have started beating me on a regular basis!

This could be one of the most important posts regarding potential future membership of the Society and general preservation of the ancient wargaming hobby we have yet had.

I actually take the development of this little project seriously as well Patrick! There are now three of them actively painting ancient armies. I would like to think I "hooked" them with my charisma and brilliant wit ;-) but I think it is because I have presented the period in a narrative form and then provided armies for them to practice with. One has already asked to play Doubles at an ADLG tournament nest year.

The attitude of "I like them so I'll play them" has led to an awakening of memories from when I first started wargaming in the 70's - every Legion is Praetorian, every elephant armoured, every cavalryman elite etc. One chap who steadfastly refuses to even consider a historical army has purchased Early Imperial Roman figures for his Romano-British SAGA army, he then asked me for details of their shield designs as he wanted them to be accurate - irony seems to be absent with some people!

Thank you for the suggestions - I will report back on the project